How does one go about obtaining a Form 4 on an existing steam locomotive from the FRA? Is there some way to obtain this information via their web page?

Thanks

The form 4 is generated by the locomotive owner.
Basically the boiler has to be stripped and then ultrasounded for thckness of all sheets. Straps, braces etc etc are all figured into the equations. From this you formulate the safe working pressure of the boiler and certify that the boiler is sound and without defects. This was a very brief explanation of what you must do.

You should find a copy of the Department of Transportation, Federal Railroad Administration
49 CFR parts 209 and 230
Inspection and maintenance standards for steam locomotives.

This will give you a better idea of what you need to do.

BobK and Jimbo may not be talking of the same thing. To obtain a current form 4 the owner will have to do the calculations as Bob suggests. But how does one obtain a form 4 from when said locomotive was last in service? If a locomoitve does not have any surviving boiler drawings, the original form 4 would be helpful in determining how much metal thickness has been lost, and in figuring out the original plate thicknesses. How would an original form 4 be obtained?

todengine@woh.rr.com

> BobK and Jimbo may not be talking of the
> same thing. To obtain a current form 4 the
> owner will have to do the calculations as
> Bob suggests. But how does one obtain a form
> 4 from when said locomotive was last in
> service? If a locomoitve does not have any
> surviving boiler drawings, the original form
> 4 would be helpful in determining how much
> metal thickness has been lost, and in
> figuring out the original plate thicknesses.
> How would an original form 4 be obtained?

After re-reading my first post, I realize I should have asked the following: are Form 4's from currently operating steam locomotives a matter of public record, and if so, how does one go about obtaining one from the FRA.

I dont know if these are public record or "requestable " from the FRA, but have you approached the operator in question and asked them about it ?

Seems to me that would be a reasonable first step. Most folks I've interacted with would be happy to discuss if you showed a sincere interest and legitmate reason to inquire.

Bill



staybolt@bellsouth.net

Interesting question. Yes form 4s are held by the FRA however would they give you a copy of a form 4 for a particular engine. Public record I would imagine even the freedom of information act may come into play.

> Interesting question. Yes form 4s are held
> by the FRA however would they give you a
> copy of a form 4 for a particular engine.
> Public record I would imagine even the
> freedom of information act may come into
> play.

I searched on FRA's web site and came up with nothing. I emailed them to get an answer to the original question, but have no answer yet. It would seem to me that they should be available to the public. I suppose if one were bidding on a locomotive, the seller should provide a form 4 if one has ever been submitted to FRA. Even if out of date the data would be helpful to determine if any thinning has occured.

The other part of the equation is how many days and/or years use since the submittal. Only the operator would have that up-to-date info.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/site/index1.htm
svry@attbi.com

Originally when steam locomotives were built, a Form 4 was part of the design process of building a boiler to meet the demands of the customer. A copy of the original Form 4 was submitted to Hartford Insurance Company which was evaluated by their engineers and then the boiler certified by one of their inspectors. You may be able to still obtain a copy of Form 4 from them, however I believe their records do not go back farther than 1920's. Some museums are fortunate enough to have a copy of the original Form 4, maybe some drawings or other data from the locomotive builder. The original Form 4's give a lot of information which makes determining things such as the metal composision and original thicknesses of the steel a lot easier. This helps when recalculating the new FRA 230 Form 4.

johnathon_kruger@hotmail.com