Has the Pioneer Lines Scenic at Gettysburg, PA closed for good? Today a "Pioneer Lines" ex-Lackawanna MU showed up (on two flatcars) at CP's St. Paul Yard in Minnesota. I knew that they had shut down, but were working to reopen...

I saw some of those cars for sale. They might still be trying, but chances are against that happening. Give it a few years, and (in theory) a new operation will show up. That's what has happened on Cape Cod for the last thirty years.

Last time I was in Gettysburg it looked like the freight operation was going well, years ago they put an ad in Railfan and Railroad looking for an operator of the tourist railroad, there were no takers.

The passenger cars used on the Gettysburg line were put on sale at the Ozark Mountain Railcar website over a year ago, and some of them are still listed about halfway down this page:

http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/cat ... enger-Cars

After closing its passenger operation, I heard of no plan to reopen it by Pioneer or anyone else. To the contrary, the intention appeared to be to sell off the passenger cars and only operate freight trains.

When they first announced the shutdown, they said it was going to be shut down for a year or so while the tracks were upgraded and then would resume.

Everyone familiar with the operation was pretty certain they had no intention of ever starting up again, and that they were just trying to reduce any negative publicity from the event. But they did say it was temporary in the press release.

This is similar to what happened to the Kalamazoo, Lake Shore & Chicago operation out of Paw Paw, Michigan. After the KLS&C tourist operation failed, Pioneer took over the railroad. I believe that the town of Paw Paw expected them to reinstate the tourist train operation, but the line has only been used for freight (very little) and for car storage (on an irregular basis).

Les

Today I checked with a buddy who has worked there and he confirmed there was never any serious intention to restart passenger operations.

That was pretty much the speculation from the start.

"We're going to announce we won't run this year (2009) and then hope that everyone forgets it ever existed by 2010..." seemed to be the approach.

For those of you interested in what was, their website still exists, and would seem to imply that you could buy a ticket, expect that the schedule is for 2008.
http://gettysburgrail.aurora-e-solutions.com/index.php

Just another example of the World Wide (cob)Web ;)

Considering the current noting of the 150th anniversary of the American Civil War, anyone want to speculate that they may regret this decision come around July 2013?

I'll resist the urge to editorialize, but as a cautionary note to everybody in this business, you might want to periodically check yourself out on Trip Advisor. Sometimes it really ain't pretty, for an operation in particular or for tourist railroads in general (WE CAME BACK THE SAME WAY WE LEFT!).

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_R ... vania.html

One thing I observed myself that deserves mentioning... there are some operations that truly benefit from steam. This was certainly one. One of the biggest advertisements for the steam excursion was simply blowing the whistle within earshot of what can be THOUSANDS of people walking outside and touring the Battlefield. That got a lot of people curious for 'where's the train?'. Convert that to a diesel horn and it's no longer remarkable - it's just another train running somewhere nearby, even though everything else may be the same. During the peak Cornell years, ridership was actually pretty good.

I've only seen this a couple times where the 'earshot factor' builds signficant measurable ridership with steam and the absence of it stuns the business when it leaves.

They won't... They're in the freight railroad business, as noted above, they've proven that on multiple operations. They don't care how much potential passenger traffic there is. Obviously they've made a coporate decision that the passenger business is not worth pursuing, even in markets with an established operation.

Tripadvisor can be brutal indeed. One of the big problems with those type of guides is that people are far more likely to go there and complain than they are to go there and say "Wow, we had a wonderful time!"

Typically places that have lots of good reviews actively pursue them, having an active presence online in places like Facebook and Twitter, and suggesting that folks rate their experience via Tripadvisor or the like.

Randy's right, you not only get legitimate complaints, but you get some that seem to be rather silly, like the comment about coming back the same route... (That's right, this ain't Disneyland!)

One of my favorite "complaints" was "There was nothing to see but forests and rivers!" to which I replied "Well, that's kind of what we like about it..."

I like the Tripadvisor one where the fellow says the Gettysburg run was better than Strasburg. My only guess is the scenery was better and that was the ONLY thing that mattered to him...

Randy:

I wonder if the line's management did indeed check out TripAdvisor.com and decided passenger excursions just weren't worth the hassle. They could either try to turn around the passenger business or focus on freight, and it appears they did the latter.

Well, this is pure speculation, but it was being advertised as a 'going concern' operation up for sale/lease (just the excursion operation) and anybody looking at it that was aware (or learned of) some of these issues....yeah.

But like they said, I've heard they are doing quite well on the shortline freight side.

I think Randy nailed it pretty well above. He noted that the steam locomotive was a big drawing card for the Gettysburg trains. For those who aren't familiar with the geography, the majority of motels and tourist attractions are clustered near the National Park Service complex on the opposite side of town from the railroad. When the steam locomotive was used, it generated a substantial column of smoke and whistled frequently prior to departures, drawing the attention of visitors. The diesels never quite managed the same effect.

I was general manager of the Gettysburg Railway from 1998-2001, and no matter what we tried in the way of advertising, we were never able to generate the kind of interest and walk-in traffic the steam engines did. Even when we offered dinner trains, battle re-enactments accessible only by train, autumn leaf specials, etc., we never approached the passenger loadings attracted by the lonesome whistle.

From a historical perspective, the Gettysburg line wasn't even there when the battle took place, having been built in the late 1880's. The line did become, for a number of years before automobiles came on the scene, the main route for veterans and other visitors, especially from the north and west, to reach Gettysburg. During the 50th "Reunion" in July, 1913, the single track line brought over 70,000 visitors to town in one week.