Rail car conflict prompts PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP NJ. mayor to evict Historic Trust
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/rail-car-conflict-prompts-pem-twp-mayor-to-evict-historic/article_6e60ad40-3758-5135-804a-744ed6df2438.html

Good Luck Mr Ed.

Yeah, there's a reason.
wood caboose http://farmanimalsrock.tumblr.com/post/ ... m-by-df369
wood caboose http://www.flickr.com/photos/18brumaire/904341929/
GE 100T http://www.flickr.com/photos/23827899@N00/4953551745/
GE 100T http://www.panoramio.com/photo/51652549
steel caboose http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonfox/30556022/
boxcar http://www.flickr.com/photos/23827899@N00/4953551845/
A whole line of rust http://www.flickr.com/photos/18brumaire ... otostream/
Trucks http://www.flickr.com/photos/bgoodsphotos/2864288936/
Tank car http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinhooa/ ... otostream/
garden tractor???? http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradleyjla ... otostream/
junk on flatcar http://www.flickr.com/photos/mamabarns/357681846/
On that last link, note the discussion: planned dependency on government imaginary grant dollars; growing frustration of the population.

Yeah, there's a reason. But it ain't rust.

Rob

Before you launch an ICBM of judgement from the west coast :-), look into what the site was like 11 years ago vs now (hint, it wasn't much), consider the political BS that has served as a distraction over the years and take into account what surrounds the museum - it's not in the middle of a residential area... It is surrounded by trees and a convenience store... The collection sits perpendicular to the road (not along side it)... Its pretty much hidden to everyone except folks on the trail.

This reeks of local pinhead BS.

Rob

If you have the time and inclination you can read the postings at Railfan.net: http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=AllTourist;action=display;num=1130001650

This dispute goes back at least six years. There are many comments on the above mentioned blog that can only be described as cheap shots and gratuitous. There have been many posts on RYPN about owning your own land so you can control your fate. While I agree this is ideal many groups just can't do it. That being said if you are on someone else's land, especially a government entity, it would seem that you need to get along or at least hold your tongue in public. On top of that bringing in equipment in what to this viewer appears to be a haphazard way with no obvious plan and very little enhancement to said equipment would appear to be asking for a confrontation.

*shrug* I just showed you the public perception of the museum, from at least six different photographers, none of them on either side of any debate.

If you want to make it about politics, good luck with that.

Thing about first impressions is they really don't care about your backstory or your politics. If you allow politics to impede your success, it only reflects on you. Nobody blames the mayor for the shabby condition of that equipment.

Trust me, I've been there. I know more than I can say about the relationship between politics and paint. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I've learned this. Do the right thing because you're damned either way, but doing the right thing has effects way beyond the scope of your politics.

Sadly even to meone wh loves railroads and admre preservation efforts it looks like a shabby scrap line. If you cant afford a lick of paint to keep things looking tidy then dont collect so much stuff in the first place.

Mike P

It would certainly be unwise to form an opinion on this dispute just from one newspaper article without the benefit of having all the background facts.

Having said that, it certainly appears that a first priority here is for the Trust folks to do all possible to change the tone of the on going discussions or they may well find themselves facing a drop dead notice and a scrapper on site transforming that equipment into 2013 Honda's.

IMHO, Ross Rowland

I have been a member of the Pemberton Township Historic Trust for about two years. I do not speak for PTHT, but I can share some information. Some of the info are facts and some are things I've been told. I've spent a lot of Saturdays working at Pemberton and I hope that no one destroys what I've sweated and worked on.

There are in a sense two Pembertons, the Township and the Borough. Pemberton Township surrounds the original town of Pemberton, which is Pemberton Borough. This is relevant, because the Museum is located in the township, on the border. If aesthetics were truly the issue, you would expect the Borough to have the larger complaint. In fact the adjacent private property in the Borough has about as much unrestored, unused equipment as the museum. It's just trucks, trailers, boats, etc. instead of railroad rolling stock.

The unrestored railroad equipment at the museum is visible from the road, but it's so far back that if you turn your head to look at it you'll probably have an accident. It is visible from the Super-Wawa parking lot and the rail trail. As far as I know, Wawa has not had any complaints.

PTHT does own some property. The land is adjacent to, and north of the trail; behind (west of) the Super-Wawa. I believe the land was part of the original parcel that Wawa bought to build their new Super-Wawa, and it was donated by Wawa. This land includes the unexcavated turn table pit from the PRR engine facility. I don't know if there is a formal plan, but I've been told that we intend to eventually reproduce the engine house, turntable, track and the rest of the facilities that the PRR had.

At the present time PTHT has very little stored on its own property. This is due to the fact that the township owned building that we maintain is adjacent to the trail, and the tracks to hold the rolling stock were built on the original right-of-way. The intent is to reproduce the small yard, while leaving the trail unobstructed. Since the original right-of-way held two main tracks, there is ample room to do this. I've been told that this track was built on the township property with permission. PTHT has reproduced the PRR section house on its original foundations, on township land adjacent to the trail.

Another reason the PTHT land is open, is so that original foundations of engine house and other buildings can be found and excavated. The ash pit has already been dug out, and the brick work is going to be restored by a volunteer profession mason.

Two weeks ago we had an "all-hands" work session. I was one of seven people who built a thirty foot section of track to hold the 44 ton diesel from Roebling. This section of track was not built on Pemberton Township property. I saw the boundary marker, and the track was at least five feet inside the PTHT property line. At the time the 44 ton was delivered, the township objected to the location, and the delivery crane was used to move the track panel even further back.

So what is this really about?

For one, the President of PTHT, Mike Tamn, is a former Mayor of the Township. I believe there is some political animosity and that the present Mayor strongly dislikes Mike and vice versa.

Second, there was a Federal Transportation grant to improve the station platform, the parking area, landscaping and lay some track in front of the station. The township delayed the project to the point that it had to be reengineered, or so they said. The additional engineering fees reduced what could be done. The contractor hired to do the work has compromised the structural integrity of the station museum building that the township will be turning over to the county. I believe that the contractor has not met the specifications of the engineering plan and has also used substandard materials. I don't claim to be an expert, but I do know that stainless steel fasteners are not supposed to rust. The township engineer has approved the substandard work. PTHT has pointed out the deficiencies and the Township does not like it. I expect that they will like it even less when the County and the Feds inspect the completed project.

I am not blind to PTHT's deficiencies. There are not enough active members to maintain the artifacts that we already have, but given the accessibility of the location that could be remedied. New members do join and are welcomed. The relationship with the township could be improved. They have been happy with some of PTHT's activities, such as the annual Train Show. There are no signs describing the equipment. I don't like the quality of any of the online photos I've seen, and the positives at PTHT can not be appreciated from the web. For example, the PS-1 box car was donated in near perfect condition and it only needs lettering. The reproduction section house looks good. The PTHT website itself is deficient in not showing these positives.

If you would like to help make things better, drop by any Saturday morning in good weather.

-Mark

WOW! Where to begin. Mark's statements are the best way to put what we have going on. I guess what shocks me is the shots taken by folks by using old photos, old information and not even close enough to the situation to make an educated guess as to what's going on. These are the folks that want to run up their post totals and find it necessary to comment on evertything on this and other boards. Get your facts straight. I think it was Abe Lincoln who said, It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are ingnorant, rather than open it and prove them right!

Mike
I really am surprised at your post since you have been there and done that with your car 57 project.

Like Mark said, we work with a small group of dedicated volunteers that come out to work at the station. We can use more help. So if you are nearby, come on out and give us a hand. If you aren't nearby help us out by getting your facts straight before posting a comment or old photo.

Funny how you can tell who is involved with preservation by thier posts.

Later!
Mr. Ed

"....then dont collect so much stuff in the first place."

That's an interesting comment. The comment might apply to an individual. Maybe a guy with too many antique cars sitting in his driveway.

One of the many functions of a museum is to save historic equipment. I used to call this a simple act of preservation. Get the item away from the folks with the torches who want to send it to china in bite size chunks.

PTHT has done an outstanding job in saving historic equipment that otherwise would have been cut up. As an example, the 45 and 100 tonners have found a safe home at PTHT, while the 80 tonner, which Ed desperately tried to find a home for, will now be cut up by the owner. In addition, they fought hard to preserve the site of the Pemberton turntable and engine facilities. Simply put, you have to give PTHT an A+ for saving historic equipment and a historic site.

PTHT has been focusing on stabilization of the collection. Its safe, weather tight (for the most part), and ready for work to be done.

Little by little real restoration work is getting done. The wooden CNJ caboose, which looks so bad in one very old posted shot, has been resided as part of a eagle scout program. The section house looks great as does the care of the trail.

So, not only have they saved pieces from the torch, they have preserved a historic site. Again, give them some credit.

J.R.

Mr. Ed-

Is there anyone (local govt, local press, etc) that your compatriots in the railroad preservation field can write to, or contact, to show support for the museum? If you can provide any addresses, email or Facebook contacts, I'm sure you would have more than a few supporters chime in on your behalf.

Matt Bumgarner

I think you guys need to get the other side of the story out there.

I have looked at your web site and there is no information on the equipment at the museum, why it is there, or why the general public should think it is anything but rusty scrap. Do not blame people for forming an opinion based on the information available, which isn't much. Instead learn from it and get the right information out there. Post comments on the Fikr photos, put equipment bios on your web site and FOCUS attention on presenting the positive steps you have accomplished. Take before and after photos and post them together. Get the positives out and bring the public into your corner.

I suppose what I'm taking away from this discussion is the idea that you need to let your communty know what you are doing, why, what the result will be, and how you are working to achieve it on a frequent - perhaps constant - basis such that if politicians interfere, they will help you hold the politicians accountable for their interference, not allow the pols the chance to control the public rhetoric and swing popular opinion against you.

Of course, having the pols in your camp and keeping them there is even better. Any board member engaged in an unproductive pissing match with a local politician or business leader needs to resign before it affects the organizations ability to work towards its goals. Powerful friends can get you a long way and cut through problems for you - one lowly bureaucratic impediment can cause a world of trouble without powerful friends to run interference.

It's about achieving results, not methodological purity in pursuing the process.

dave

Firstly Car 57 was NEVER in the public eye as a rotting heap of a house, we took it way out East onto private land and only got it downtown when we felt it looked good enough to be there....not perfect by any means or finished but constantly improving, and the website continues to be updated weekly to show that.....postings by yourselves to let RYPN readers know whats going and being restored/repainted would be very beneficial.
I have never seen any pictures of a turntable pit or roundhouse foundations that would be most interesting.
Secondly when we were asked by the city of Cheyenne to bring our newly found caboose straight down to the parking lot to be with Car 57 we refused on the grounds that it would start to look like a pile of scrap being collected and have no benefit to the city...yet.
We are a one man restoration team and taking on any more would be foolish and disheartening. So other projects await with there owners, i realize that may be different here if you had to save things from imminent scrapping.
Sorry to upset anyone.......but more info would solve the misunderstandings.

Mike Pannell
Car 57, caboose 2516, Car 521