Not all of the fire engines sat and watched, there is a series of aerial photos that showed one of them that tried to get to the plane and buried itself (judging by the ruts in the field behind it) but that is beside the point, being that the pilot made absolutely the right decision. If he had tried to save the plane and sacrificed the passengers/crew in the process, it would have probably been the end of all of the touring warbirds taking passengers for a ride...Think excursion locomotive boiler explosion.

Cheers, Dave

The B-17 loss is tragic. It would have been far more tragic if any lives were lost. To these people, the loss of their aircraft is akin to the total loss of an operating steam locomotive by an operating group. I'm not sure how you would have a TOTAL loss of a steam locomotive, but picture it anyway.

There is a gripping and fascinating non-fiction story about a C-123K that DID "make it back" with a very massive fuel leak. But mostly by sheer luck. The C-123K used a pair of Pratt and Whitney R-2800's and a pair of JATO's for assisted take-off.

Some of you might want to read it.
The book is titled Flying Through Midnight, by John T. Halliday. He was the pilot who got them "home" though they were losing fuel from the #1 engine at a fire hose rate. Well after midnight in enemy territory in Laos in 1970, no useable charts and only a vague knowledge of a small airstrip not far away where night landings are prohibited due to terrain. Those who had tried, had died. A forced landing in the mountains was not an option. Bailing out was not a real option because it meant certain death for most or all on board. No choice but to fly onward and hope they didn't erupt in flames. But they were leaking too much fuel to make it back home. They had to come up with something...
Available on Amazon and from Simon and Shuster.
Mark D.

Two words: "Ka-BOOM."

Unless this was at the end of steam, how much would you like to bet she was rebuilt with a new boiler and returned to service?

Steve

I've never seen a photo of one that was quite that demolished except in the state fair meets. I'd bet that this particular one wasn't rebuilt. Looks to me like the frame is bent just about doubled.
Still, there are a lot of salvagable parts there.
I wonder which has more value today - the salvagable parts on that locomotive, or the four Wright 1820's that appear at least partially salvagable on the Liberty Belle. Possibly the engines from the airplane. So scarce.
The Liberty Belle group does have another B-17 in the restoration phase. No clue how far along it is, but I'm guessing that they'll eventually put that one in the air. Hope they do.
Mark D.

I as well am glad to see all were safe after that crash and felt sad to see one of these beautiful warbirds crash. I had attended the WW II weekend atthe Mid-Alantic Air Museum in Reading the week before and If an of you want to see an awesome display of WW II equipment, THIS IS A MUST SEE EVENT located a Spatz Field in Reading PA. B-29's, B-17's, B-25's P-47,P-51's just to mention a few Jeeps duece and halfs encampments,etc. I even found a 1943 White Half-Trac that went through French Morocco and Sicily with my Dad and the 67th reg of the 2nd Armoured!

How about this one......


From this website,

http://colfa.utsa.edu/users/jreynolds/T ... EVENT.html

March 18, 1912 in San Antonio.
The 704 exploded and flattened every thing within a hundred feet.

Really awesome power inside those things...

Regards,
Kevin

Kevin,

After reading that report, I am not 100% clear as to the nature of that locomotive's failure; did the crown sheet collapse, or did the throat sheet or boiler shell fail or rupture? Can you or anyone else clarify what part of the locomotive failed?

And speaking of awesome power, one of my favourite passages is from an ICS book (Locomotive Boilers Part 2 #1967 B circa 1927). On Page 99, a discussion on low water starts and on the following page, it explains:

I hope this sentiment is unintentionally ironic in context.

dave (different one who finds it not at all a cheerful concept)

first let me say "I'm glad that it was a safe landing and no one was injured or dead"

I remember seeing this plane just before it was mangled by the tornado in windsor locks when it was at the new england air museum I think I was 5 or 6, the aftermath of that storm destroyed 2/3 of the original collection, and the b-17 was one of the planes hit, it was in awful shape, the fact that it took 2 different organizations to put her back together was the ultimate accomplishment and a very very sad event to see it lost as it was resurected at least 3 times before this happened, the plane lived many lives, but if you think restoring locomotives is expensive be assured planes are MORE Expensive to restore to operable condition and the FAA safety regs are 10 times more difficult than a steam engine under FRA regs, there are a couple of flying examples of the b-17 all over the world to lose one is disapointing but these things are going to happen, it also makes me think of the reproduction of the mephis belle its owner was sited on more than one occassion for safety issues and was flying her on a ferry waiver for quite some time til the FAA put the ki-bosh on that and ordered the plane for all maintance issues addressed before she could fly again, i remember she was stuck on a contract hanger for months in windsor locks before the issues were addressed , and finally able to fly again

In the 1960's flyable B-17s were extremely common on the West Coast, having been purchased from surplus at Davis-Monthan AFB for $2000 to $3000 each, converted into aerial tankers and used in firefighting.

I spent a LOT of time in the right (and later the left seat) of these beat up old beasts. They were repaired just enough to get 'em in the air with a load of slurry, and flown until they crashed, caught fire or fell apart. (In tanker service that didn't take long.). They were on Restricted Airworthiness Certificates and were of such little consequence to their owners that if one crashed on landing they'd torch out the tank components and valves and bulldoze the rest of the airplane no matter how minor the damage.

Brand new, never operated Wright R-1820s were available surplus from D-M for about $150 each, sealed in their original factory shipping canisters.

No one, ever gave the remotest thought to warbird preservation in the 60s. They were a commondity that was thought to be in endless supply.

Absolutely.And perhaps Obviously.

In case anyone wanted the word from the horses mouth on the crash.





Statement from Liberty Foundation Chief Pilot:

June 14, 2011 - First, let me start off by sincerely thanking everyone for
the outpouring of support that we are receiving. I am sorry that I have not
yet had the opportunity to return the many phone calls, text or e-mails that
I am receiving offering to help. Again, thank you for all of the kind words
that we are receiving and for incredible offers to help emotionally,
financially and/or with the recovery process. I hope this statement will
help fill in a few details that everyone is wondering about that led to the
loss of our "Liberty Belle".

Yesterday (June 13, 2011) morning, both our P-40 and B-17 were scheduled to
fly from Aurora, Illinois to Indianapolis, Indiana. We were in Aurora for
the weekend as a part of our scheduled tour. Over the course of the previous
week, we completed a scheduled 25-hour inspection on the B-17 which was
completed by Saturday. On Saturday, the weather stayed below the required
ceiling to give any passenger flights, however the B-17 flew in the morning
on a routine training proficiency flight, performing several patterns.
Following the flight, other maintenance issues arose that required us to
cancel our Sunday flying schedule for repairs. The maintenance performed has
not been, in any way, associated to the chain of events that led to Monday's
fateful flight, but is being considered in the preliminary investigation.
However, due to the media's sensational (mis)reporting, there is a large
amount of misinformation that continues to lead the news.

Here is what we do know. Flying in the left seat of the B-17 was Capt. John
Hess. John has been flying our Liberty Belle since 2005 and one of our most
experienced B-17 pilots. He is an active Delta Air Lines Captain with over
14,000 hours of flying experience and flys a variety of vintage WWII
aircraft. In the right seat was Bud Sittic. While Bud is new to the Liberty
Foundation this year, he is also incredibly experienced with over 14,000
hours of flying time in vintage and hi-performance aircraft. He is a retired
Captain with Delta Air Lines.

The news misidentified the P-40 as flying chase during the accident. I was
flying our P-40, however I had departed 20 minutes prior to the B-17's
takeoff on the short flight to Indianapolis to setup for the B-17's arrival.
The aircraft flying chase was a T-6 Texan flown by owner Cullen Underwood.
Cullen is one of our rated B-17 Captains and an experienced aviator tagging
along as a support ship.

The takeoff of both aircraft was uneventful and proceeded on-course
southeast. Prior to exiting Aurora's airport traffic area, the B-17 crew and
passengers began investigating an acrid smell and started a turn back to the
airport. Almost immediately thereafter, Cullen spotted flames coming from
the left wing and reported over the radio that they were on fire.

http://www.libertyfoundation.org/libert ... 3a_600.jpg

As all pilots know, there are few emergency situations that are more
critical than having an in-flight fire. While an in-flight fire is extremely
rare, it can (and sometimes does) indiscriminately affect aircraft of any
age or type. In-flight fires have led to the loss of not only aircraft, but
often can result in catastrophic loss of life. It requires an immediate
action on the flight crew, as the integrity of aircraft structure, systems
and critical components are in question.

Directly below the B-17 was a farmer's field and the decision was made to
land immediately. Approximately 1 minute and 40 seconds from the radio
report of the fire, the B-17 was down safely on the field. Within that 1:40
time frame, the crew shutdown and feathered the number 2 engine, activated
the engine's fire suppression system, lowered the landing gear and performed
an on-speed landing. Bringing the B-17 to a quick stop, the crew and
passengers quickly and safely exited the aircraft. Overhead in the T-6,
Cullen professionally coordinated and directed the firefighting equipment
which was dispatched by Aurora Tower to the landing location.

Unlike the sensational photos that you have all seen of the completely
burned B-17 on the news, you will see from photos taken by our crew that our
Liberty Belle was undamaged by the forced landing and at the time of
landing, the wing fire damage was relatively small. The crew actually
unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly
burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. There were high hopes that
the fire would be extinguished quickly and the damage would be repairable.
Those hopes were diminished as the fire trucks deemed the field too soft to
cross due to the area's recent rainfall. So while standing by our burning
B-17 and watching the fire trucks parked at the field's edge, they sadly
watched the wing fire spread to the aircraft's fuel cells and of course, you
all have seen the end result. There is no doubt that had the fire equipment
been able to reach our aircraft, the fire would have been quickly
extinguished and our Liberty Belle would have been repaired to continue her
worthwhile mission.

Let me go on the record by thanking the flight crew for their
professionalism. Their actions were nothing short of heroic and their quick
thinking, actions and experience led to a "successful" outcome to this
serious in-flight emergency. John and Bud (and Cullen) did a remarkable job
under extreme circumstances and performed spectacularly. While the leading
news stories have repeatedly reported the "crash" of our B-17, fact is they
made a successful forced landing and the aircraft was ultimately consumed by
fire. Airplanes are replaceable but people are not and while the aircraft's
loss is tragic, it was a successful result.

This leads me into discussing the exceptional safety record of the Boeing
B-17 and to hopefully squash the naysayers who preach we should not be
flying these types of aircraft. Since we first flew the "Liberty Belle" in
December of 2004, we have flown over 20,000 passengers throughout the
country and if you count our historic trip to Europe in 2008, worldwide. Of
the other touring B-17s, some of which that have been touring for over 20
years, they have safely flown hundreds of thousands of people. The
aircraft's safety record is spectacular and I am certain the overall cause
of our issue, which is under investigation, will not tarnish that safety
record. In fact, as many of you know, other B-17 have suffered significant
damage (although not as bad as ours!), only to be re-built to fly again.
From a passenger carrying standpoint, I can think of few aircraft that offer
the same level of safety as the 4-engine "Flying Fortress". As mentioned
earlier, in-flight fires are extremely rare and certainly could affect any
powered aircraft under certain circumstances. I would put my children today
in any of the other touring B-17s to go fly. I suggest to anyone that was
thinking of doing so when a B-17 visits your area to do so without giving
our loss any thought.

There is wild speculation going on as to the cause of our fire and the
affect to other operators. Please let the investigation run its course and
report the findings. The NTSB and FAA were quickly on the scene and we are
working closely with them to aid in the investigation. As soon as we receive
some additional information, we will release it via the website.

The ultimate question remains, where does the Liberty Foundation go from
here? After the investigation and recovery, we will determine our options.
We are still committed to the restoration and flying of World War II
aircraft. Again, we appreciate the support and people offering to help get
us back flying.

Please check back for updates. I will close by thanking everyone that made
our tour so successful. From the first day of the B-17's restoration, thank
you for all of you who labored to get her flying over the initial
restoration years and to everyone that has worked on her out on tour since.
Thank you to the crewmembers, tour coordinators and volunteers who gave up
weekends and countless hours to support her on the road. And finally, thank
you to the passengers, donors and media patrons that flew aboard and
everyone who supported our cause. Hopefully, this will not be the end of the
story, but a new beginning.

Regards,
Ray Fowler
The Liberty Foundation, Chief Pilot

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