I'm wondering if anyone knows the final disposition of DL&W 1136, which derailed and sunk near the Delaware Water Gap in 1948. I am finding conflicting information as to if it was recovered and scrapped, or possibly only partially recovered.

A few more details,
http://njscuba.net/sites/site_freshwater.html

Mike Tillger

It has been pretty well established over the years that the loco, or any part of it, is not still in the river:

http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-d ... 00012.html

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I guess it's just a rumor that won't die. Does anyone have a copy of the NY Times photo?

I had researched this back in the 1980s when Steamtown first began. There is a front page photo in the New York Times showing two cranes with taught cables into the river pulling the 1136 out, though no part of the locomotive is visible. I've seen Rod Dirkes' photos of the tender of 1136 back on the rails. The number plate from the 1136 was presented to Tom Taber, and it now resides in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.

The DOT investigation of this wreck said that a wooden milk car (steel underframe) followed the locomotive into the river. The passenger cars behind it all stayed on the track. I interviewed the trainmaster on duty that day, the late Andy Hopper, who was asked to find No.9 "the Paper Train." as it passed Slateford but never got to East Stroudsburg. Driving up 611 he saw the passenger cars and no lomotive and thought the crew had cut 'n run for water. When he boarded the train the conductor was just getting up off the floor. Andy recalled that the locomotive was recovered -- "we'd never leave it down there," he recalled with conviction. The engineer's name was Angetti, a known speedster; he and his fireman perished. The train had left Hoboken more than two hours late, if I recall. Hopper had no kind words for that engineer.

There were three wrecks on that curve over the years, and I'm pretty sure the steam locomotive landed a little further railroad west than the two that came later. A string of cement hoppers rolled off there from Port Morris ca. 1959, and a CNJ / EL train wrecked there in the 1970s. The wreckage in the river is likely remaining from the 1970s wreck. There may be chunks of hardened cement around from the 1959 runaway. I'm wondering what's left of the milk car, since it was a tank car and may have been worth less in scrap than the cost of recovery.

But there is no steam locomotive at that spot ....Mike Del Vecchio

Come on, Mike! Another possible surviving milk car to add to my list? :-) Get the dive gear out...

A few days a go I contacted the Delaware water Gap park.

And this is the email I receive back.

" Hello Mr. Jones,

I was forwarded your message in regards to the train wreck at the Delaware
Water Gap bend. There have been 3 documented accidents in this particular
location, but the specifics you are requesting in regards to the 1948 wreck
show that the pieces of this train have been removed and scrapped!

Currently there are 3 pieces of equipment still in the river, those include
a boxcar, a Steam locomotive coal tender and a possible hopper car. Changes in water flow due to
icing and flooding alter what remains are actually visible.
Hopefully this information will assist with your research. If you need anything further
please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks for your interest in the
Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area.

Sincerely,

Lori Rohrer
Archeological/Museum Technician
Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area "

The boxcar is old and small, but nearby is a roller bearing freight car truck with a boxcar's plug door laying on it. There are also some chassis of highway tractors. I haven't seen the other 2 alleged railroad cars.

How badly does somebody want a Lackawanna tender?

I'm wonding if that "old and small" boxcar is the carcass of the milk car. Same with that steam tender. The milk car that went off was one of the MDT-built wood cars, so it had a channelled side sill and express trucks that both resemble things on steam tenders. It was a tank car covered with wood similar to a boxcar, so while the wood is likely gone the metal frame and glass-lined metal tanks may be mistaken for those on a steam tender. The steam wreck is a bit further railroad west than the EL wreck.

I did see a picture of the 1136's tender back on rails, so there's no tender down there. The hopper body is likely from the cement cars that broke free from Port Morris. The trailers are from the 1970s wreck that involved piggyback flats.

I will write to the current owner of that photo asking for a copy ....Mike

The "old and small boxcar" really is a metal box car body. You can swim inside (I don't urge you to, just peek) to see that there are no tanks. It is in shallow water, close to shore, and the roof is so rusty that it may be above water in a drought. I have stood on the roof with my head above water, I'm 6 feet tall.

The steam locomotive landed in deep water, so if the boxcar is in shallow water it's from the 1970s wreck. The milk car, if it's still there, would be in deep water also. The eyewitness said that there were no marks on the rail or the ballast from the locomotive and milk car, so they must have been moving. The complete DOT investigation is on the USDOT website -- sorry but I don't have a link handy.

....Mike