Is the Reading camelback and the Canadian Pacific ten-wheeler included in that assessment?

I once took a shop tour at Strasburg where the leader (either Linn or Kelly) outlined the priority and pricing:

Three pricing levels: "We need it NOW" (damaged UP 844 safety valves or valve cages, for example), "we need it as soon as you can get to it" (contract jobs for other railroads, routine Strasburg work), and "when you can get to it".

The priority: Strasburg's own needs first, then whoever is paying the most.

In spite of all the wonderful stuff the shop does, in the grand scheme of things (50-year plan), a steam locomotive shop is just not quite a "growth business." There are fewer steamers, they're not getting any younger, and the regulations and conditions just keep getting more onerous.

Strasburg has proven an ability to operate routinely with four available steamers for decades now (first 31/89/90/1223, then 31/89/90/1223/7002, then 31/89/90/475). Absent serious frame fatigue or the like, there appears no likelihood of retiring any of these except possibly 31 only to cease using a rough-riding 0-6-0. Is it worth spending a million or so just to swap out an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" 31 for a "new" 4-6-0 or 2-10-0 or whatever else?

As for the Camelback--that has to be regarded in the same kind of mentality as Anderson's steam launch or someone else's Stanley Steamer: a highly-impractical labor of love.

No. 1187's restoration would indeed be a labor of love -- but -- it has been put to practical use on the Strasburg. There was a period during the mid-1960's when it was the only available steam locomotive, and it handled the passenger train, with an assist from the 44-tonner on the rear. It was also used as a yard switcher for a time, hostling passenger trains into the station at Strasburg when they were too long for the existing runaround track, after the road engine cut off and went to the water tank. So never say never.... I am reminded this evening that I saw No. 1187 in its CF&I No. 4 disguise in 1962 while riding an Iron Horse Ramble.

I had forgotten that 60-ish years ago that freight cars were much smaller than they are today. That a 2-10-0 could haul 9 modern freight cars vs a couple dozen 50's freight cars makes sense to me now.

What is the max tonnage that #475 can pull on the Strasburg’s grades?

Not to be too critical but if the railroad has no intention of restoring the #4 in the next 10, 20, 40 years, or at all then why not at least cosmetically restore her for display in the station? I know this will cost time and money as well but at least we will all enjoy seeing the engine on display and no longer sitting around in pieces. The folks at the railroad a very experienced and know what they are doing but some decisions are confusing such as the decision to rip apart this engine knowing that they did not need another engine nor had a real use for such a small locomotive. I would love to see the engine operating as many of us here would but I also understand the business end and the need to make the right decisions that keeps the business going. As a business decision, I would have left the engine alone and put it on display but that is just one man’s opinion. It is a real shame to see it rusting away year after year with no future in sight.

Keep up the good work Strasburg and I hope you continue to get more freight business to strengthen your bottom-line.

Regards,
Pennsy Power

At this point, as far as I am concerned, the Strasburg purchased America's last operating camelback and put it to sleep. They generated a lot of excitement a couple of years back when they announced the possible restoration, and now it appears it is not going to happen. Even though it was operating when the Strasburg purchased it, the engine was a mess, and as far as I know, it never received a thorough overhaul. Supposedly, it has the power to pull an eight car train, but lacks the steaming capacity. When it was running, it could reliably pull a four car train. I wonder how much the steaming capacity would improve with a newly restored boiler without carbon encrusted flues. I am a big fan of the Strasburg, and I think they are the finest operation in the country. But when it comes to the camelback, I feel that if they are not going to restore it, THEY SHOULD SELL IT to someone who will.

And I think that if you're not willing to paint your house pink, then you should sell it to somebody who will.

It's easy to talk about property that belongs to someone else. Strasburg can do whatever they want with whatever they own.

Let's look at the real alternatives here:
*Status quo ("Waaah, it's not running!")
*Reassemble for static display ("Waaah, it's not running!")
*Donate to RR Museum of Pa. ("Waaah, it'll never run again!")
*Donate/sell to Reading Co. T&HS, which may or may not succeed in an operable restoration..... (I wager the "not," but you never know...)
*Donate/sell to any other group that thinks they can run it, such as Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern (how much have they kept steam running in the past 40-odd years? Not much...), and see if they can keep from screwing it up.
*Rebuild with a new boiler, running gear, etc. and make it a bastardization with little to no "original fabric" left.
*Have those that want to see #4 run again raise the costs of the rebuild.
*Scrapping (not gonna happen, but it's an option).
*Reassemble for donation to the RR Museum of Pa., and start construction on a new Camelback replica, invoicing equally for the costs involved everyone complaining that #4 isn't running.......

Now, bearing in mind that, the government's increasing efforts along these lines aside, you can't really tell other people how to spend their monies in a (purportedly) "free" market and society, which of these are possible?

Frankly, the only real issue here is that America's "last Camelback" (a type/model that died off for bloody good reasons) just happens to be a hideously impractical piece of "junk" that survived only through a combination of luck, inertia, and poor finances on the part of CF&I, along with a soft spot in the hearts of the founders of the Strasburg for the Reading. Had CF&I used a Jersey Central 0-4-0 or 0-6-0, or an old PRR saddletanker switcher, this entire discussion would not be happening. Lord help us if they had procured a former Lackawanna or LV switcher..........

There is an additional option... those complaining should pony up enough money to make Strasburg an offer they can't refuse, then a couple hundred grand more to have it rebuilt. Then they can take their marbles home and play with them all they want, anytime they want.

Otherwise, stop telling others how to spend their money.

I sincerely apologize if my post has angered anyone. That definitely was not the intent. As I stated, I think the Strasburg is the best operation in the country. The camelback is a unique little engine, and it has many fans that would like to see it run again. I was suggesting that if the Strasburg has no use for it, they could sell it to an organization that does, because it is not "just another steam lcomotive". I guess I used a very poor choice of words. Several individuals, including myself, have looked into forming an organization that would raise the funds to restore the locomotive. An attorney informed me that because the Strasburg is a for profit operation, and they own the locomotive, any funds put toward the restoration from an outside source would be considered income to the railroad. I'm not an attorney, so I can't agree or disagree with that. I was also told there may be ways around that. If you remember, when the railroad announced they may be restoring the engine, they were going to use volunteer labor. I read that the volunteers could only be railroad employees because of workers comp issues, etc. And Emmo213: Regarding painting my house pink, I won't hesitate to sell it to someone that will, as long as they give me market value for the house. Again, I apologize if I have angered anyone.

First, no one is telling anyone anything. These are merely thoughts about what to do with the engine not demands or ultimatums on how Strasburg should spend their money. Those saying that we are telling them how to spend their money simply are missing the point here which is to explore the problem at hand.

Second, there will always be some level of disappointment somewhere thus you can’t please everyone. However, this does not solve the problem, which is #4 sitting outside rusting with no future, nowhere to go and no friends.

Third, it was back in 2004 (seven years ago) that the railroad began exploring the possibility of restoring it. No promises were made. But why take it apart is my question since they knew then they had no need or use for it? This is a question they have avoided. Why is it important? Well ask yourself if you would take apart your car with the intention of not putting it back together ever. Why would you do it? Was there something about the #4 that created the need to tear it apart? Perhaps there was. It is also an important question because these days it’s even more critical to protect these aging relics and to prevent their further loss.

Finally, these arguments for the railroad’s defense, no money, no use for it, no time, can’t tell others what to do, etc. simply justifies #4 sitting outside in a grave until it degrades into a stain on the track. The same arguments can be made for many pieces of railroad history and if they were we would not have as much of it as we do today. Much was lost because of the same old arguments. Its ok to make these arguments and of course share them with others but ask yourself why?

In closing, we cannot forget the greater purpose here. Strasburg must operate like a railroad first to live then look to preserve history because they are not a museum. However, Strasburg like many others in the field are there in the first place because they focused on preserving history. History is why people come to the railroad. If they really have no intention of restoring #4 at least for display than send it to the museum where it can have a future and be preserved even if ti takes 20 more years to get to that point. Right now, there is no plan, no target dates, no ideas, no money, and no place to put it where it won’t rust. That’s not the Strasburg I use to know.

Oh well. Please take it all for what its worth. Nothing we say here will move them or anyone else. This is simply to explore or ponder and ask the tough questions that even the railroad must ask themselves.

So it still stands will #4 ever have a future?

Regards,
Pennsy Power

....or maybe.... maybe... they can restore a Big Boy to help them pull freight, or they can use this engine I heard of that is sunk in a query...

Maybe she will, if this effort to gain interest in the #4 succeeds. Regardless, having the #4 existing is great enough. Sad to see the old girl rusting away, but it's better that she is at least not being cut for scrap.

Is it just me, or are we drifting away from the subject at hand, and that was the great job Strausburg has done with 90, and what it did in freight service recently.

The answer is so apparent, few have to ask it. To get a more complete understanding of the job, it needs to be disassembled. And the work required is more than they will start when they have plenty of contract jobs and work on hardware that produce revenue (and perhaps the funds that will one day be used to restore 1187).

Bob