Nigel - if you'd like, shoot me an email and I'll see what I can do to post your stuff.

timothyjbotti(at)gmail.com - the (at) is an @

PS - I think a lot of folks will agree that THIS is the kind of stuff we need to keep going on RYPN! Foamer posts have their place, but I come here for talk about hardware and preservation! Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

Tim

Thank you for the offer and another I have had through a PM. Between us it will get done tomorow.

Thanks

Nigel

Nigel I will have to wait until thursday 21st to get the blower pipe dimensions.
Metric/Imperial doesn't matter to me,as I transitioned from imperial to metric when metrification was introduced into Australia, I use which ever measurement is the easiest to read at the time.Imperial measurements sure confuses the heck out of the younger generation though.
I should say we burn run of the mine coal because thats all we can get before it goes through the crusher. It has 20.5% ash content
Energy rate of 22-24 mj/kg,
Volatile Combustile matter 26-30%
Moisture 10-12%
Total Sulphur less than o.4%
And an Ash Flow Temperature of 1450degrees C.
I will try my best to upload photos.

More photos.

More photos.
Nigel, if there are any more photos you require tell me so that I can get them for you.

We use Hulson type firebars but with a larger air gap because of the high ash content

I meant to say, I don't mind this discussion being public. As far as I am concerned as much technical information on the Public Domian about the Restoration, Rebuilding, Modifying Steam Locomotives for todays and future generations the better.
I can tell readers that I was a part of a group of 7 who was asked to put together a Steam Locomotive Boiler Code of Practice to ensure the Steam Heritage Rail Operators have common guidance for their boilers.
I think this document can be downloaded at http://www.rissb.com.au/userfiles/file/ ... -V1_01.pdf .
When we get organised we intend to put on a website information that we and others have to share with all because its no good keeping it secret.

On the plus side, you've got a beautiful, all welded modern boiler - on the minus, built to the same design as a century old riveted one. Shame you couldn't update the entire combustion / heat transfer engineering and fit it into the historic envelope. Too good an opportunity to let go to waste.

If anybody can make her steam, it's Nigel. I'm looking forward to the process being laid out on this thread.

dave

Photos from Nigel Day...thank you, Nigel!

Here's a chart of gas areas that Nigel sent to me for posting. He mentioned to expect some associated drawings tomorrow, and I'll post those when I get them.

I assume gas area, in the context of tubes and flues, refers to the sum of the cross-sectional areas of all of the tubes and flue ID's?

I think this boiler may have been designed (1993) long before some in the preservation movement understood that a locomotive boiler is more than a large kettle.
If other organisations are like the one I am in with no technical people on the board of management simple technical talk has them baffled.
I have told them that we can only pull one inch and a quarter vacuum, we need more we need to do something about it. I have left it at that.
I am going to fund the project with the purchase of materials, rely on a mate who owns a metal fabrication shop to work the material and by trying to get an organisation onside with a CNC lathe to make the nozzles.
When the job and testing is done only then will I provide the board with the necessary paper work and let them gloat over the success.

Nigel, in the photo showing the mixing chamber is the flare calculated in the total length of the mixing chamber?
The Fowler boiler does not have an arch. I believe it should have one but the problem we have is the difficulty in replacing / changing the front Fusible Plug if an arch were fitted.
I have seen locos with steel arches in two halves to overcome the tightness in space but I don't know how successful they are.

Thanks for the asistance with pictures etc.

The first two are of the WCWR loco#5 The basic consept of what we are doing will be very close to this. The Lempor was designed and built in less than 5 working days from the time I arrived after a long flight to when we went for its first test and sucsefull run to Strahn. In time this will be further refined but for now it is an improvement.
The fetures I want to point out are the nozzles where made to fit the existing stand pipe.
In the stand pipe the small pipe is the fitting for the back pressure gauge.
The chimney it's self is free standing and mounted by its own flange to the top of the smokebox. The origonal chimney with its copper cap was designed to fit over the lempor.
Note how the vacuum ejector pipe is fitted up the side and between the lempor nozzles. The old blower ring was reused for speed but modified in the hole size and position.
Roughly the bottom of the mixing chamber taper is level to the top of the nozzles.

The table of AAR recomended areas is also there now and yes it dose use the GFA of all the tubes in is proportions. Please remember that some of these proportions are for a difrent type of chimney and draughting so have to be modifed to suit. I am mearly pointing out the principe of the required proportions of gasflow.

People have mentioned arches and other such items. These we can talk about later on.

The boiler would benifit from water treatment and because of where your are I would talk to you PBR contact. While we are on the subject of 6A at PBR I will mention that I have had no physical contact with it . The work was done by mail.

Here are the two charts Nigel passed on to me to post. Thanks for the education, Nigel!

Nigel I am having your diagrams drawn up by my smart son in a cad program. I think all he has to do now is to dimension them, I hope he will do it tomorrow.
He said he will draw me component drawings so that I can get bits made.
Then I will put them on the forum for your comment.
Is the nozzle size firm, if so I can order the hollow bar.
I have a couple of questions mainly to do with the blast pipe stand which will be better left to when I have uploaded the drawings?

This boiler is now on a Alkali, Tannin and softened water treatment program since those photos were taken. Its currently flooded and the chemical reserves are monitored. I can't wait to give it a washout and have a good look at it.

Right, The two diagrams above are firstly the layout of the nozzles relative to the exhaust pipes.

If ? I have done my sums right you can reuse the existing stand pipe. Having now seen the photos I realise why you wanted to put some sort of divider in the bottom. Its a good idea and I would think something like an aditional flange with the splitter fix from and below it.?

The stand pipe if reusable and has a suitable flange at the top should then have a suitable flange made to match. This flange needs to be thick and have a bore of 3.6 inches like the pipe. The top side of the flange where the nozzles will fit make a raised lip of 5 mm thick and heigh. If there are any small lips or sholder between the flange and pipe them then smooth them out. Like the main pipes smooth the bore of the stand pipe out. If all else fails then fabricate a new stand pipe but you dont need me to tell you how to do that. Drill a suitable hole say 1/4 BSP for the back pressure gauge.

The nozzles you have now seen in the second diagram have the De lavel form as we started the beginning of the thread. They have a very low co-eficent compared with a traditional nozzle which means that once reaching a terminal pressure they will produce more velocity and so the draught created does not falls off at high pressures. Such changes to nozzle size and shape can reduce the back presure which then allows a bigger presure drop across the piston and cylinder. A 1 pound drop in back presure can be the equivelent of an increse of 5 pound of main steam inlet presure. There are ideal sizes for nozzles but either the size of the loco or the avalable height never matches up. On the other hand once you go small then wire drawring in super small nozzles becomes a porblem and it why for these then 3 nozzles have to be done.

The angle and position of the nozzles is most important and why the mixing type of designs are more eficent. The 7.25 is constant for all types and the point of aim. This is the technical bit and I have no intention of going into complex science, just a comparative model explanation.
Imagine a welding torch to do gas welding. You have to hold the flame and its plume at a critical angle to gain the most heat transfer. What we are doing is the same with pressure.
The next model involves a hill side covered in mud. as the thickness of the mud builds up and up it exserts more pressure on the lower layers. In these layers the viscosity of the mud decresses with the increse in pressure. At the critical point where the vicosity is less than the friction holding the mud to the hill side the whole mud slide disapers down the mountain which is very much like a roller bearing.

The above discribs the braking down boundry layers and mixing action in the 'Mixing chamber' somthing which is still an ongoing study project.

The bottom edge of the mixig chamber needs to be roughly level with the top of the nozzles. and a smooth rounded of tapered entrance. There are many ways of making that.
The difuser above the mixing chamber is most important in many ways but at times I have had to sacrifice the eficentcy of the difuser to fit inside traditional chimneys. Its not the ideal and somthing I prefer to avoid if posible. Futher more the exit area of the difuser should be 4 times the area of the mixing chamber. It is very rare to get the full height of a defuser in a loco, and this is why double and multiple chimeys are fitted. In some resent requests I found that if a single chimney has been insisted upon then I would want another 100 to 150 inches of height. And some locos would have required more than 4 flues. So not a practical project within the specified limitations.
Just making a double rather than single flue will give you an extra 15% of natrual draught.

The nozzle drawring is not the full maching prosses and will be further explained for the milling and fabrication stages. Material for nozzles should be somthing like EN3B but not free cutting. I will draw a flange if you realy need but that's somthing you should be able to figure out. The overal and actual difuser size can be ajusted to suit. Also I want to add some pictures of how to mount the flue (more posts to write)

IMPORTANT NOTE

To all out there who may now think 'right I am going to do my own Lempor' please understand that every one has to be taylored to the loco and there are many conciderations to the work that I have not covered in detail. I have covered the important points to understand but I have not explained the exsact maths or method of design. I have used the simplest terms and explanations,nothing more. Please ask me if you realy want help to do somthing.