Anybody know the cost and revenue estimates?

http://www.midcontinent.org/steam2011.html

Mid-Continent has about five locomotive that are appropriate size for their operation on the property. Some interest is gathering for repairing the firebox of C&NW 1385, but there are some beauties that are just weathering. Behind the display barn are at least two fragmented 0-6-0's. Then there is the monster Decapod they can't run.
#75 is certainly making the rounds and bringing live steam to small railroads around the nation.

Mid-Continent does not own any 0-6-0s.

http://midcontinent.org/collectn/steam_.html


This recent news release concerns the CNW 1385.

http://www.midcontinent.org/news/news25.html


The cost per day to have Flagg Coal is $1,500, which does not include the cost of fuel.

The Decapod #41/#401 is a sister to the #90 at Strasburg complete with stoker engine. With some updated work to track and curves I do not see why it couldn't run at M-C, although I wouldn't pursue it unless they get trackage rights to Baraboo or Devils Lake. Forget the axle wt, but it is not that heavy and has a blind driver. As for it not meeting the museums mission statement, either does the 4 diesel locomotives and more than a few steel cabooses on the property or the east coast Lack's used in daily train service. This could really use a cosmetic face lift, just like the #90, a stunning locomotive. {edit, please send money}.

They do own two 0-4-0 switch engines, one tank very much like the Flagg Coal #75 and a stout 0-4-0 slope back tender loco. Yes both are looking sad in the paint dept. Both look worse than they are in my book. Cosmetically challenged locomotives are often written off written off because of their looks rather than their actual condition. They all need the same repairs whether they look nice or not, some more than others obviously. What I am trying to convey is that cosmetic appearance is like skin color or a shiney paint job on a clunker of a car, you just can't make judgments based on it.

Cheers, John.

The steam situation at MCRHS is not as bleak as it appears. Funding has been committed to start the restoration of the CNW 1385. This locomotive requires a new boiler, which has been designed and will be of all welded construction. The museum has already acquired the steel for the new boiler. In addition to the work beginning on the 1385, work continues on the rehab of the frame and running gear on the Saginaw Lumber No. 2. The boiler repairs to this locomotive were completed last year and it is awaiting an FRA steam test. The hope is to have this locomotive in steam next year.

One final comment. On August 13 and 14 Mid-Continent will be pulling its two 1903 wooden Copper Range coaches, No.s 25 and 60 behind Flagg Coal No. 75. Restoration of Copper Range No. 60 was completed in 2003 and the car has been on display in the coach shed since then. Restoration of Copper Range No. 25 will be completed in the next 10 days. This will be the first opportunity in many years to ride on these cars. Tickets to ride these cars are on sale now.

In checking my own photos, yes, those locos are 0-4-0's. My mistake, mea culpa. Rather than to leave this seeming as a negative comment, I must offer sincere kudos to Mid-Continent for getting a plan in place and moving on it, to fire some of those lovely steamers once again.

I'm not privy to anything about the Mid-Continent Railway, but I can speak in general terms for what I've heard about the Flagg Engine. Since it's steam, and generally visits operations where there is no steam, it often brings in large crowds. In fact, it's apparently a lot like our little blue friend Thomas.

There's also another comparision. When they leave, management is often left asking the same questions, which nobody seems to know how to answer with certainty. Questions like "Were these new passengers, or folks who would have ridden anyway?" "Will they come back and ride again?" "Will they be dissapointed when they show up next month and we don't have a steam loco / Thomas?" "Was the added expense and effort worthe the additional income?" "How will this affect our operation long term?" and "Was this a good idea or a bad idea?"

That's the easy one. Subtract the normal ridership for the day from how many actually showed up, and the difference is new riders.



No, they won't... not this year, maybe next.



No, because they won't be back next month. But, the folks they told about their neat experience will be disappointed when they don't find the same.



For Thomas, probably not, since the production company has it finely figured so they take the lion's share of the profits. Much more likely for Flagg Coal 75, since the Gramlings seem content to cover their costs and leave the bulk of the profits to the hosting group.

This is one of the hidden dangers for those groups who have given up running steam because it's either too hard, or too expensive. The ridership figures don't dive immediately, since there were trains running, and the visitors did get to ride. However, their kids really didn't get to see the "choo choo" and it will be a cold day in hell before they come back.

The cost for 75 is $1300 a day. But the expense of transport to the site and coal is not in that figure. The transport of the engines is the most costly of all and we try to arrange it so we go from one place to another to minmize that cost as much as possible.And as Dennis said making a living off the engine isnt our main goal we need to cover as much of the costs as possible. We may seem a little different in that neither dad or I really want to run it . The fun for us is getting them to run and then watching the faces of kids (and some of them are quite large in size and age I might add) enjoy it. We figure to have had close to 1000 different people run the engines so far. Everyone from 12 to 90 somethings and one fellow at Owosso who was legally blind (He did better than most in reality).It has preserved the memory of running a steam engine for some checked one item off of alot of bucket lists for others and perhaps set the hook on another generation to keep these going after we are long gone. Back to the costs we like to be able to give the groups a figure right up front no guessing no divving up afterwards they know what it will cost so they can budget accordingly. Everywhere we go we would like for them to come out ahead in order to further their projects and enjoy doing it so that we might have a chance to come back again. We like going places where they do not or have not had steam in awhile , it gives them something new to promote and stir up interest in their area . Dennis made a point in that management does have several questions to ask after we leave, but I think every group asks the same questions after any type of event that the group puts on as I think they should. I've rambled enough here if anyone has a question dont hesitate to call me or dad we both talk alot better than we can type.

This little locomotive is doing better than most in our "for profit" society. Be assured, #75 is probably seeding the next generation as well as that little blue fellow. A real steam locomotive tends to stick in the memory.

Barney -

Quick question; is that $1300 per OPERATING day, or for each day that the engine is on the property of the guest museum/railroad? Thanks.

Les

Les Thats per operating day.

The thread seems to have morphed towards visiting steam…

The Society for the Preservation of Carter Railroad Resources (SPCRR) at Ardenwood runs a 19th century narrow gauge railroad with horses… horses of flesh… We also have a couple of gas locomotives.

Once a year we invite steam locomotives to visit. To date, we have had 5 different locomotives usually one at a time, but recently two at a time.

The group’s core objective is preservation of 19th century wood west coast railroad cars. Our operating railroad is based on a horse powered branch of an otherwise steam powered railroad. The steam locomotives operate at our annual 3 day Railfair. We also invite modular railroads (both garden railways, On30, and maybe this year a Nn3 operation) as well as music, hold a “Hobo sign scavenger hunt, have restoration displays, hand car and pump car rides. All at a 19th century historic farm with the appropriate farm animals, large Victorian house and such.

The steam adds to a great special event, and is promoted as such. It allows steam operation without distracting the small group from its core mission, preserving wooden railroad cars.

Our guests, mostly not railfans seem to understand that the steam and all the extras are something special.

The locomotives are mostly 8 ton narrow gauge engines which can move on a heavy tilt bed tow truck. Our biggest costs are transportation… Fuel, while not insignificant is noticeable. The event is not designed to be a fund raiser, but we try to cover the costs.

We were fortunate enough to have the 75 in Scranton for a few days at the beginning of last year's NRHS convention. Fortunate also in that we were in the position to have them basically "lay over" in between their dates on the Naugatuck RR in CT and for the Train Festival in WV. I'm sure that kept our trucking costs down.

The Gramlings were more than willing to work with us on price, scheduling and accomodations. Along the way I broke my own 10 year vow never to fire a steam engine again. Had a great time, though I'll never admit it.

Our situation was different than most, in that we weren't trying to make money or really break even. Having the 75 was both a nod to it's local heritage (built and operated within 20 minutes of Scranton) and as a preamble to the convention that was aimed at introducing the public to the NRHS.

Our goal was public awareness and we succeeded with several TV stations and newspapers covering the event.

Now if I can just find a way to get the 126 to Scranton.

Dave

Come on Dave. There is a nice little tank engine next to 565 that would be too much fun to run at Steamtown. But I say again Congrats Flagg those engines are great and you are setting the foundation for maybe future steam preservation ways of getting the word out. Great job.