Here is the eBay listing......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Antique- ... 0639383394

Anyone know where this car is from? Ex. Porto perhaps?

I'm guessing Lisbon, but either way it's definitely Portuguese.

I believe that this car was to be used at Heritage Square, in Highland Park, near Pasadena.

I believe it is very narrow gauge, maybe 30" and from memory, possibly from Switzerland.

The story I heard was that it ended up in the states for a different, private or commercial project then was donated to Heritage Square...

Randy

Last time I looked, the Swiss tramcar was still sitting in Heritage Square (the building preservation museum northeast of downtown Los Angeles--somebody once called in "an architectural petting zoo." Its railway preservation interest is the former SP/PE Palms depot, which was moved here 30 or 40 years ago). The car in Bloomington may be part of three that were brought to Southern California in the 1980's as part of a scheme to build a "heritage trolley" line around "Old Town Pasadena". As I recall, they were from Lisbon, which is meter gauge (I think the Swiss car is also meter gauge). One of them was put on display in an Old Pasadena storefront for a few month, then disappeared. What I found rather amusing was the controller that had been installed for appearance: it was a Westinghouse HL (Multiple unit), probably salvaged from a Pacific Electric "Hollywood" car in the 1950's (a K-11 would have been more appropriate).

The Old Pasadena project is indeed what this car came from, according to the Ebay Description. Apparently there were several cars, with one restored by developer John Wilson and put on display for an event in 1985. Bob Davis' comment above clarifies it as three cars.

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-04-24/news/vw-7407_1_trolleys

I, too, have been mistaken in thinking these cars were meter gauge, however Lisbon's track is 900mm, which equates to 35-7/16" gauge.

Other western hemisphere Lisbon cars I know of include double trucker car 346 in New Jersey
http://www.njthc.org/collection/lisboncar.html

Single truck car #530 operating in Duluth, MN
http://www.lsrm.org/Home/exmisc.html


Single trucker #531 operating on 3' gauge in Whitehorse, YT
http://www.heritagetrolley.com/existYukon.htm

Car 534, one of six brought to Aspen in the 1970s, now located at the Old Pueblo trolley and under regauging to standard. Does anyone know the current progress?
http://www.oldpueblotrolley.org/whatsnew.html#2006%20Restoration%20Update

Car 519 is another ex-Aspen car now located at the Issaquah Valley trolley
http://www.issaquahhistory.org/trolley/

In Detroit, seven Lisbon cars, a Swiss car and an English double deck car were used in a heritage trolley ride until 2003. The line shut down and apparently the 9 cars were sold later that year. Perhaps the Swiss car at Pasadena came from Detroit?

A few years back there were offered for sale three narrow gauge single truck cars in a warehouse in Portland. They were imported by Paul Class and restored for an individual but never used. I thought they were Lisbon cars, however they may indeed have been meter gauge cars from elsewhere.

On NGDF it was reported that two cars were brought to Cripple Creek CO 14 years ago by Maurice Woods. One of the cars is numbered 776.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonybaca1969/3292553901/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamarackgold/5557351397/


I am left wondering What has happened to the 16 Lisbon cars unaccounted - 7 from Detroit, 4 from Aspen, 3 in Portland OR, and 2 additional cars from Pasadena.

Here is a description of what you can find today in Lisbon:
http://www.wcra.org/features/lisbons-streetcars.htm

Hello,

There are no bids on this trolley, yet. What wrong with people these days? Like me, I would like to have a trolley to restore & run around my property.

I also want to Who own this little trolley? Maybe I would like to buy it.

Thanks,
Brian Waller

Brian, somehow you need to learn that there is simply not a world full of millionaire rail enthusiasts just hanging around out there, waiting to buy a dusty old trolley and rehab it. What would anyone other than a trolley museum with 3'-gauge trackage--with catenary--do with this trolley? Where are the replacement parts like traction motors to come from? I think you need to reign in your expectations for the people on this board, most of whom are ordinary working folk or retirees on fixed incomes. There is nothing "wrong" any anybody who posts here. The museum and tourist railroading organizations live from hand to mouth on a daily basis.. They do what they can, most through varying levels and types of volunteerism.

If it is important enough to you that this trolley be saved, then get up out of your chair, round up a few like-minded friends, and put in a bid.

I learned a long time ago while working in historic building preservation that there is simply no way you are going to save them all.

Mike

The Detroit cars from Lisbon have not been sold. If they have, I would be very interested in learning when they are sold, for how much they were sold, and where they are now.

It is my understanding that the cars are still here, probably stored at the Detroit Department of Transportation's (DDOT) Shoemaker Bus Terminal on the city's eastside. There is also a Lisbon trolley that they used for spare parts at DDOT's HQ. They tried to sell this car at auction a little over a decade ago but they didn't get the kind of bids that they were hoping for and removed it from sale. I've been told that the chances of these cars being sold are slim because they are narrow-gauged. If they do sell them, they won't get much money for them.

I have also heard that the Swiss tram and the double-deck tram that are also here cannot be sold because the city doesn't own them.

I have not been able to confirm that a Lisbon car that Detroit sent to Seattle for refurbishment was not returned because the city is decided not to pay for the work and is hoping that the company can sell the car. I hope this is not true because they would have to sell the car at the cost of the work which is far more than the value of the car. If this is true then it's not too cool on Detroit's part.

I'm hoping that Detroit will use these cars along the riverfront and/or along the Dequindre Cut.

Tim Davis
Detroit, MI

The only railway museum I know of that has A) 3-foot gauge track and B) 600 volt trolley wire is Orange Empire, and if I suggested extending the overhead to Grizzly Flats (the Ward Kimball legacy 3-foot gauge section), the idea would probably not be well-received. And we have quite enough to do on Pacific Electric (standard gauge) and LA Railway (42-inch gauge) cars to keep us busy for a LONG time.

(Posted from Chama NM)

You may be forgettting Railways to Yesterday at Orbisonia, where the wire does extend over 3' gauge for quite a ways. They have a few Oporto cars, so adding Lisbon cars is not necessarily a huge attraction.

I would think that a narrow gauge trolley project would likely be a stand-alone, something like the Detroit heritage line. Other existing 3' gauge tourist railroads should at least consider the cars, given the example that Whitehorse has provided. One interesting possibility is Bishop, CA, where there was a previous effort to lay 3' gauge track over a previously graded, but never built, trolley line. I think that project got stuck in execution and never used all the ISTEA funds that were allocated. Anyway, it would be an interesting use of a Lisbon trolley car, if the Laws Museum were vital enough to go forward with it.

Again, I wonder how the regauging of a car is going at the Old Pueblo Trolley.

The Merseyside Tramway Preservation Society regauged an ex-Lisbon tram to standard gauge few years ago.

http://www.mtps.co.uk/trams/730l.htm

Tim Davis
Detroit, MI

I visited Railways to Yesterday/Shade Gap and East Broad Top a few years ago, and hadn't noticed the wire over the narrow-gauge track. One difference is that, as far as I know the trolley museum and EBT are two separate organizations, although I wouldn't be surprised if some of the local preservationists belong to both entities. A few years earlier, I visited the Laws museum, where they've done a fine job on the Brill gas-electric car, but the effort to built track from Laws to Bishop seems to have stalled. A streetcar with a power trailer (like the Astoria, OR operation) would be appropriate, because the line that was never built had been promoted as an electric interurban, since hydro-electric power was available from the then-new Bishop Creek power plants, which are still in service as part of the Southern Calif. Edison system.

Does anybody know who bought the trolley?

Here is a link to the seller of the three restored Lisbon 900mm (~3' gauge) trolleys in Portland, OR.

http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/193461.htm