I thought it was kind of strange that they would send one of their locomotives to Reader RR to be restored if they were facing financial hardships, but I've given up on trying to figure out human nature/behavior.

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA.

Hello,

I guess all of you want proof that The ES&NA RR is For Sale, check out this link:
http://genebland.featuredwebsite.com/se ... stings.asp.

The Newspaper Article of my website is correct, but they did came down on the asking price. They were asking $1.75 Million, Now they are asking $1.7 Million.

If any of you have any more questions that you want to ask me, Please do share.

If you want to help me Save The ES&NA RR, Please contact me.

Thanks,
Brian Waller
Future Owner of The ES&NA RR

E-mail: brian.waller24@yahoo.com


Website: http://www.savingesnarailroad.com

Brian, I think you should be talking to a bank or some other financial type organisation in order to purchase what is obviously being sold as an operating business. Begging for donations from a group of railfans and signing off as "future owner" is probably not going to cut it. And don't get too hung up on the difference between $1.7m and $1.75m- once you get that close I am pretty sure you could negotiate that much discount yourself.

Wes

This is the second time I've received complaints about the usage of photos which violate other peoples copyrights. The offending post has, once again, been deleted.

A post containing photos for which the poster lacked usage permission has been deleted. Again.

I don’t know where it is written that a railroad has to be on its deathbed in order to be for sale. If that linked real estate ad is real and current, it appears that the railroad is indeed for sale.

Brian ought to have the right to post on this topic without receiving a bunch of snide comments from other members. In my opinion, some of those comments should be deleted for amounting to personal attacks. Has somebody established that Brian did not have permission to post the photos that were removed from this site? I would like to know how the fact that he did not have permission to use the photos was verified.

No, he shouldn't Ron, and neither should anybody else whose contributions are limited to irrational unrealistic foamation and wishful thinking - or perhaps thinking isn't the word. There are other sites for that. RyPN is useful because it has - although it is slipping - attracted a higher standard of postings from people who are actually in the business and know what they are posting about, not wannabees and hobbyists and people who are more interested in photography than preservation. I'll take a hundred threads like the wavy side sheets, museum management, marketing, painting techniques, product reviews, classifieds, whatever - but I'm getting discouraged by the amount of junk that is starting to surround it here.

Our moderators are very moderate about poster qualifications, and while I understand it to some extent based on the idea of free speech no matter how stupid the things being expressed may be, this isn't actually public airwaves and more weeding out might well be done. I'm also not really interested in cooling off debates about staybolt installation or any other real topic, so long as they remain mostly factual, even if there's a little running with scissors as long as smart people are saying interesting things while they run.

Respect to Randy et al, it's a thankless job and I'm happy to have moderators of their calibre doing it, but a reality filter might be a very good addition to their tool kit.

dave

After reviewing the website, I can make the following observations (if it's current):

- There are 5 members in a group that's been together since 2009

- In two years, a 501(c)(3) non-profit has not been established. Why?


Generally, one could infer that there is either-

-Little interest in the group / railroad

-A lack of trust of the non-profit's leadership.

I've gotta agree with Dave. Threads and persuits based purely in fantasy have a place on the net and I don't think it's here. Unfortunately, any place where the 'cool kids' hang out is not sacred for long.

Russ

Hello,

There is a reason why Railroad preservation is dying all around the United States. It is the arrogance of those who seem to know everything!!! Brian is making an effort and he is getting attack for doing so. I love steam more than anything else and I welcome Brian for making an effort!!! Those who are posting here do nothing more than attack anybody that comes from the current generation!!!! What gives??? It is that the older generations are so hostile because they have realize they have failed in attracting new membership to clean the toilets, do the hard work, and the like while they sit in the cab and enjoy the sights!!!!! I don't know what constitutes a respected poster on this forum, but I figure it means that you are grey, old, remember steam, and good at wrecking a hobby, destroying business plans and destoying the finances of our country!!!! You can't blame Brian for any of this!!!!

Brain, railfan's site like Trainorders are just as hostile!!!! These guys here at RYPN are just more respected and so called "professional" in their efforts to chatize you!!! Keep steaming along!!!! You have given the first real news of ES&NA in a long time!!!! Thanks!!!!!!


Regards,

Antonio

Slow up a little, Antonio.

There is no way to offer at least constructive criticism--let alone expose a totally inept proposal or even an outright fraud or scam--without leaving one open to charges of negativity, nay-saying, or worse. And simply making a counter-charge of negativity or prejudice (or, in the case of Obama & administration, racism) really does nothing to refute the substance of the criticisms involved.

In this particular case, we have several problems with this "proposal" that have been identified by several people:

*Lack of concrete, up-to-date evidence that the railroad is still actually for sale, and for what price;
*Lack of evidence that there has been any concrete discussion or queries made with the current owners or management of the railroad;
*The problems (legal and otherwise) of soliciting donations towards the purchase of a privately-owned railroad and rolling stock by either a private corporation (as things now stand) or a non-profit (which does not as of yet exist);
*Lack of any evidence of a coherent business plan for this proposed purchase and its aftermath.

As things stand now, I would take this about as seriously as everyone else on this forum would take me if I were to suggest I wanted to buy Amtrak to save the history of America's passenger rail service. Even the membership of the National Association of Railroad Passengers, a virulently pro-Amtrak bunch, would be obligated to ask me some hard (and very negative-sounding) questions if I were to make that proposal, let alone solicit their membership for donations towards the cause. Where do I expect to get the money? How do I expect to pay for it, let alone attempt to make it profitable enough to be self-sustaining? Would the owners of Amtrak even consider my proposals, even if I had Warren Buffet and Ross Rowland standing beside me?

My standard approach to just about any negativity, especially in politics, is to simply say "Propose a viable alternative." That typically stops all conversation on the topic. In this case, others here (and myself) have suggested alternative approaches that may (repeat, MAY) make this proposition more viable in the future. If he pursues them--comes back with an up-to-date price from the owners, outlines a business plan, etc.--then we'll give this the more serious consideration it then would deserve.

Antonio -

To me, the best way to gain respect here is to treat an RYPN posting as professional correspondence, like writing a good business letter. Remember that your prose might be seen by a future boss!

Blanket accusations about others are definitely out of bounds IMHO, and most definitely do not earn you any respect.

As noted on another list I contribute to:

Also, if you are involved in the field (for example, I'm on the Board of a major railroad museum), remember that your postings also represent those you are working with.

Coming from someone who actually did the due diligence several years ago to purchase the ES&NA Railroad I can tell you that the owners are not realistic about a sale. They want someone who can come in and drop CASH to purchase. If you have to finance you are not a Buyer. PLUS the depot does not even come with the property and they can not and will not provide financial information to a Buyer. They still do their accounting out of a shoe box. The ROW and land is owned by one company and the equipment (only 1 steam loco and cars) are owned by another company. The owners have ticked off many other businesses in Eureka Springs over the years and there is not much networking. At one time they hauled 100,000 passengers a year, now they are lucky if they do 10,000. The property has not seen regular maintenance for some time and REALLY needs a face lift.

As for Mr. Waller I can assure you that how you initially perceive him is exactly what he is like. I have had several dealings with him and they have not been productive or pleasant. I have even tried to guide him a bit to make his efforts more professional and it was not a productive effort.

Antonio,

If you go back through the many threads on RyPN, you'll see many instances where someone wants to save a certain railroad or piece of equipment and have met with quite posative replies. If you have a solid, reasonable idea and can convey that idea to others, you'll be taken more seriously here and in your business dealings with the owner of what you want to save. There is, however, a contingent of guys out there (whom we'll call 'that guy') who has buckets of enthusiasm, but does not posses the mental, social, or monetary capacity to see their dream through. While 'that guy' can sometimes be put to good use, more often than not, he gets under foot or acts in a manner generally detrimental to the cause at large, including pissing off the good volunteers as they're constantly having to 'parent' that guy. If someone does not want to be disparaged by those who have experience in their particular field, perhaps they should slow down a bit and learn the ropes before going off half-cocked. In general, those who know about this stuff are happy to share their knowledge to those who are genuinely interested in learning it, and you can't learn it when you're constantly running off a the mouth.

Sorry Antonio, but that's the reality.
Russ Swinnerton

Hello,

After read this thread, I have found out that all of you guys are being rude to this person name Brian Waller. I can understand what he is trying to do here, he is trying to find some help and also support to do what he want to do with The ES&NA RR. I know because I met and talk to him at his RR Museum, The Eureka Springs Railroad Historical & Restoration Society & RR Museum, located at Silver Wings Field Airport in/near Eureka Springs, Ark., out there by Onyx Cave. I talk to him for a few hours there at his RR Museum and we talk about what he is trying to do and what he is planning to do with The ES&NA RR. If you visit his website, that he give me, you will see what he is planning of doing to this RR, http://www.savingesnarailroad.com.

I can also understand that he is a good young man that is trying to do what he like doing, That is Saving The ES&NA RR from being lost and forgotten.

Well I just want to let all of you guys that Brian Waller is a good young man doing what he like doing.

Well I guess I said enough here.

One more things, The reason why I know what Brian Waller is trying to do here, is because I am a member of The E.S. R.R. Historical & Restoration Society.

Thanks,
ES&NA RR Fan

Oh goody, new ID created to push this again. Now we have a Len of the south.