Hi Guys; Getting back on topic any away from the politics (Ross Roland for President?), Chinese steam needs to be seriously looked at as part of bigger / more important debate. Unless someone in the states starts manufacturing parts or locomotives at an affordable price, Chinese parts & SY locomotives may be an lifeline for some railways to “keep up the steam”. Then again, will there be enough demand to be cost effective? Most American steam currently running and or being restored are at least over 60 years old. Boilers wear out, running gears wear out, and lets face it, the skills to maintain these machines is also dying out. New Boilers and fireboxes are costly! Where can you buy an off the shelf mechanical lubricator or a non-lifting injector designed for locomotives these days without spending a small fortune. It is almost the same price these days (including volunteer man hours) to have a new built steam locomotive constructed than overhaul that 85 year old ex park displayed 2-8-0 sitting on your rip track. This is one of the reasons whey more groups in Great Briton are building new locomotives (besides re-creating long scraped locomotives). If there is going to be a future for the steam locomotive these are some of the many issues that will need to be addressed. Have fun everyone, David Notarius London UK (ex New Hope PA)

I sat down with Henry Posner (RRDC / Iowa Interstate) a few years ago and we discussed his QJ locomotives. He made a point that still resonates with me - importing these Chinese engines is among the most cost-effective ways to offer steam on a tourist railroad. Furthermore, they are about as close to a turn-key operation as you're going to get. I remember hearing prices in the $350k range for a QJ, "delivered to your door." Pull your neighborhood park engine into your shop and see if you can put her back together for that price.

I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that most tourist lines are trying to make money. If they can preserve a historic locomotive as an added bonus, that's a good thing. But it's 2011, and I'll take a fired up SY over a dead ol' #9 anytime.

PS - let's take it easy on the politics, huh guys? A lot of us read forums like this one to avoid political yakking.

That price quoted above wasn't too much more than what I was quoted for an SY delivered to Baltimore about 15 years ago. And for a much larger engine, to boot. (Too bad my former "client" was afraid to go for the financing, but now that we know more about his company, its just as well; I can see why-)

I apologize for starting this thread down the political road. Sometimes my warped sense of humor overcomes my caution.
If Chinese parts work fine, then there isn't a whole lot of choice on some of them. Most of them are exact copies of American parts which are very hard to find these days, or when you do, they are worn out or eaten up with corrosion.
I remember how much work I put into making one good Viloco bell ringer out of three of them that had rusted solid. Or Viloco cylinder cocks for both the engine and the booster engine. Some things you can work around, but there are parts on a steam locomotive that are unique.
I hate to see our country in the shape it is in by all the manufacturing overseas (as well as call centers) but sometimes you just gotta go that way if you want something to run.
I'm still waiting to see Dave Conrad's project. That would be something I would do if I had an SY or JS even if the Chinese got mad at me for "Americanizing" it. If you pay for it, you can use it anyway you want.

Was that ready-to-run with the necessary US inspections and approvals?

CD

Yes, I believe it was. Bear in mind this was a few years back, and China steam has diminished significantly in the meantime. I'm sure costs are somewhat higher now. To me, the availability of spare parts is almost as big a deal as the locomotives themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe GC 4960's got a feedwater heater and WM 734 has a Chinese stoker. Even if these major items do require some work when they arrive, it's got to be easier (and less gut-wrenching to a preservationist) than pulling one out of some other engine, right?

I'll admit it, I think the SY's are just plain cool. Perhaps J.David or someone else with experience can comment on their mechanical strengths and weaknesses.

Who wants to contribute to my "buy Tim an SY" campaign?!?

Tim, what would you do with it? My suggestion would be to replicate a Virginian Railway MB; overall proportions of an SY look closer to such a locomotive than to the New Haven engine, at least to me:

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=90615

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=92324

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=61852

An important consideration, at least I think it is--even these relatively new locomotives eventually are going to need work, will need repairs. If we don't keep up our steam maintenance skills, in a few years we will be in much the same boat we are in now.

Please stop planting "evil thoughts" in my brain.......:)

Doesn't seem to far fetched. I've never seen an MB until reading this today, but that looks uncanily close to a SY-convertiable. Only thing that's off is the spoked wheels and the headlight mounted on top of the smokebox. Just to bring it up, some of the larger chinese steamers, like a QJ for example, could be modified to resemble, say, a Boston and Maine 2-10-2 (I think they were S-class. I should know considering I have a book on that subject). There's also many similarities between the other common classes (JS, QJ, and SY) that makes them easy to redesign and reconstruct. To look at the JS for a moment, it could be used to recreate a large mikado type locomotive, like a NYC H-5a (that's the best example I can think of. Chances are that their are better examples)

Daylight 4449 thought the Virginian MB looked close to the Chinese SY, with a partial exception of box pok drivers and a high headlight. The MB also had other detail changes, such as a different cab, a round-topped tank, and a second sand dome over the firebox.

He may be interested to note that the Virginian did have another 2-8-2 class, the MC (and also classes MA and MD). Five of the MC's were rebuilt for fast freight service, and part of what they got were lightweight rods and Baldwin disc drivers. The rebuilt engines were in class MCA:

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=11828

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=77262

An MB "could have" also gone through a similar rebuilding, resulting in the smartest steam locomotive in America--an MBA!

While on the subject of Virginian locomotives, many people may not realize that the Virginia rostered Alco PA's, in their traditional black and orange:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 962&nseq=5

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=90409

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=91074

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=60749

Well, they are PAs, and built by Alco, even if they burn coal. . .

Daylight 4449 also mentioned the idea of a QJ becoming an American stand-in as well. My take on that would be a Southern 2-10-2:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 739&nseq=5

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 01&nseq=16

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 32&nseq=32

http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... u5047.html

http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... u5028.html

http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... u5054.html

I wonder how a couple of these would look and sound on Saluda. . .

Good grief, can't I get any sort of sleep around here?

Ok, now you've got me thinking even more "evil thoughts", Like what if Reading & Northern ever decides to get rid of 425? And how much would Strasburg charge for spoked drivers and a Hodges trailing truck.....

I wonder what Strasburg would charge to put a belpaire firebox on it? Didn't the PRR perform some surgery on some 2-10-2's and put belpaires on them during a rebuild? If so, then we have historical presedence for doing so. Maybe I should amend my suggestion and ask Juniata shops to do it.

Does anyone know how close a QJ is spec wise to a USRA heavy Santa Fe type?

Scott- IIRC, the cylinder and driver dimensions and weight are very close to a USRA light Sante Fe type. That tall Russian-style boiler kind of ruins the look though.

You do realize that the skyline casing on QJ's and JS Mikes covers an external dry pipe? Something that as far as I know was not common U. S. practice, but was very common practice in Russia, from which the QJ and JS designs were lifted pretty much whole by the Chinese. So, to really Americanize one, you'd have to redesign the steam delivery from the steam dome to the superheater header and put the dry pipe inside the boiler.

One thing that could be done to the 6988 to further Americanize the look would be to put flat sheet metal on the smoke deflectors, but keep the smoke deflectors - I agree with those who say that QJ's look much better with deflectors than without them.