This may be our last chance to save some WW2 era US Steam locomotives awaiting their fate overseas, if we are not already too late. Some of these locomotives are combat veterans. Due to the current economic situation, along with the rise of the price of scrap, a number of American steam locomotives scattered in eastern Europe may be lost. There is a large number of American S160's class 2-8-0's and S100 0-6-0t's in money strapped Greece. The state railways, OSE, is shutting down lines and scrapping anything they now considered surplus. The narrow gauge operations in the Peloponnese has been completely shut, where there are a number of meter gauge Vulcan Iron Works 2-8-2's in various states of disrepair. Scrap yards in Turkey are starting to cut up American Army 2-8-0's along with US built 2-8-2's and 2-10-0's. The former Yugoslavia has a number of US built 0-6-0ts still floating around. Plus there are a few of the once numerous ex US Army 2-8-0's still around in various eastern European countries. If you ever wanted to get a real US Army WW2 Veteran locomotive, now is the time to act!

I applaud your enthusiasm, but........

If you've read many of the recent posts in several threads here, you'll know that there are many domestic museums that can't care for what they already have on their grounds, and are facing the same scrapping issues.

As much as we'd like to save all of it, we are going to have to pick our battles.

There are at least two WWII-built USATC S-160 class 2-8-0s available here in the U.S. for sale. One is from the Monte Holm (?) collection, by way of the USATC and the Alaska RR and the other is in Georgia, by way of the USATC, Ft. Eustis and the Cass Scenic RR.

Hi Guys; I know we can not save everything, and that some of the ex Army 2-8-0's and 0-6-0t's are already preserved in the US, but it is important to at least get the news out to everyone. Just in case, lets say, someone wants an S160 that saw war service to be stuffed & mounted, or if someone needs an injector from an ex USATC 0-6-0t, or even a group wanted a modern 2-10-0 and was thinking about those VIW built “Skyliners” in Turkey. This may be the last chance! David Notarius, London UK (ex New Hope Pa)

"even a group wanted a modern 2-10-0 and was thinking about those VIW built “Skyliners” in Turkey. "

Having been born a few blocks (literally) from where those engines were built, I wish the recently ended office lottery pool had come in. I have a video of them being moved and tested on the Lehigh Valley in 1948.

Oh well, and then there's the unfortunate political situation developing in Turkey.

Hi Guys, There is always an unfortunate political situation developing in Turkey. Has been since the 1920's! That’s how the locomotives got there in the first place after WW2. I always found that maters between railwayman and or railway enthusiast around the world, always transcends politics. It never hurts to write a few letters and put a few feelers out. This is how the British Overseas Railway Trust has persevered and re-repatriate a number of British built locomotives to the UK. The worst thing that could happened is you might get a letter back saying no. A skyliner for Steamtown? Have fun – David Notarius, london UK (ex New Hope Pa)

Indeed, the British got a British built 4-8-4 back from China- the only one to survive.

I have often felt the S160s got a bum deal here in the states. These were among the last steamers built and being newer steam one might expect that they would have operated longer into the preservation era. A number of the S160s out there are worn out, kicked aside, and forgotten. Were they simply constructed less stout for a very short service life or were they abused. It seems to me the ones on Army bases would be cream puffs compared to locomotives in other types of service.

The shipping alone, of one of these units, would have saved Coos Bay Lumber #10, actively being cut up in Florida. Sorry but we're broke.

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA.

Money issues aside...

The rebuttal to this is "But you'd be getting a much bigger, more attractive, and more usable 2-8-0/2-8-2/2-10-0 instead of a busted 2-8-2T in need of expensive repairs...."

The rebuttal to that rebuttal is that TCDD was not exactly known for stellar locomotive maintenance, and you're getting a piece of "American craftsmanship" after sixty years in "third-world" hands. I'm pulling up photos my British friends shot of Turkish steam in the 1980s and 1990s, and it's painfully obvious they were lax on water treatment, maintenance, etc.

It's a little odd to consider that a Turkish 2-10-0 would have more of a local connection to Steamtown than most of the current collection does. I wonder how many Scranton-Wilkes Barre residents know that large machinery like that was built practically next door to Steamtown. Let's try not to consider how many might care . . .

Walt L.

From my understanding, there were a lot of 'shortcuts' taken in the design and production of the S160s to make them cheap.
Most WWII stuff, despite the over-engineering of the era, was designed to be disposable - even the Pentagon was designed for a short life span!

CD

"It's a little odd to consider that a Turkish 2-10-0 would have more of a local connection to Steamtown than most of the current collection does. I wonder how many Scranton-Wilkes Barre residents know that large machinery like that was built practically next door to Steamtown. Let's try not to consider how many might care . . ."


When that LV video came out, a couple of Steamtown volunteers had a gentleman's dispute about whether Vulcan ever built anything that big. Bernie O'Brien settled the argument when he remembered the event.

The video is amazing. LV Wyomings and F-Units shoving 22 Skyliners up the grade out of Wilkes Barre to Gracedale. Funny, the railroad is gone, the right of way is gone, the Wyomings are gone, the F's - well you get the picture, left? Exported locomotives.

Add this: How many people realize that the Trolley Museum at the end of the yard was Dickson, a predecessor/component of Alco, now the main power of the Delaware Lackawanna?

Then there's the fact that Baldwin's first electric was built for the Laurel Line.

The historic nature of the Scranton Wilkes Barre area (all of NEPA) is pretty amazing.

Another interesting story about Turkish steam can be found in David Wardale's book "the Red Devil and Other Tales from the Age of Steam". When American Coal Enterprises was cranking up in the early 1980's, in addition to their plans for new state-of-the-art, computer controlled, condensing steam locomotives for the U.S., there was a plan to set up a division that would build new steam locomotives for export to countries with steam locomotives still in service. These steamers would have also been state-of-the-art, but more conventional in appearance and without computer control or condensing tenders. Design and construction of these locomotives would have required much less R&D work than the ACE 3000, there were many potential customers, and there was no need to convince them to go back to steam from diesel like there was in the U.S. Turkey was thought to be one of the prime potential markets for these locomotives as the Vulcan 2-10-0's were still running at the time and were near the end of their economic lives. I'm not sure how far this effort made it, but that would have been pretty cool to have NEW U.S. steamers replace the ones built ~40 years earlier.

Maybe Ross can chime in with some additional details?

Hi Guys; Time is running out of the Turkish - American built steam locomotives. There was still a few around, but the price of scrap is on the way up, and a recent report from a friend returning from a trip to Turkey said that some of the scrap yards holding large number of locomotives are considering start cutting soon. "...easier to crush refrigirators, busses, trucks and cars then torch a steam locomotive..." was the norm until recently. If anything, last chance for some parts! Some of the Greek USATC S160's may have already gone to the torch this year! Hope everyone is having fun - David Notarius, London UK, ex New Hope PA