Something i have been giving much thought to recently, is are we doing a good job of preserving today's history for future generations? We live in an ever changing world and it seems as though life passes us by so rapidly. I look at pictures i took when i was in my teens of railroading in the 70s. The shots weren't all that good but the images that were captured now show an era of railroading that is now gone. I remember seeing F units, E units and GP7s and GP9s. There were Alcos and I even remember those ugly early GE's, but they were all common sights then. I remember when Amtrak got their first new power the SDP40F's even though the E units still made it into the consist.

Then one day I realized that the locomotives were getting newer and some of the things that were once common for me to see weren't very common anymore. Then even the stations started closing up and disappearing. Then it happened the SDP40F' were also goon and those odd P30CH's were gone and none were saved. I know this happened with the steam locomotives and the cabooses, but many of them made it into parks and were saved.

Now I know from personal experience that it is not possible to save everything. I also know that there are many early diesels in museums and some still working on short-lines and regional railroads. But over the last few days I have been in some conversations, that the words came up "If we had only thought getting one of those before they all went to scrap a couple of years ago."

This got me thinking, what should we be looking at to preserve for future generations? Are we documenting the history that happens today for the museums of tomorrow? Has anyone else thought about this?

I sometimes wonder when the first widecab GE will be preserved and who will be the one to get it. That body style is the most common locomotive type on rails today, from the original CW40-8 to the evolution series.

This is not the first time this subject has come up; you may find these earlier (and occasionally tongue-in-cheek) discussions interesting:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31376&p=158466&hilit=bart+preservation#p158466

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31288&hilit=bart+preservation

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31588&p=160018&hilit=ore+cars#p160018

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31363&p=158457&hilit=F40+F40ph#p158457

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31352&p=158285&hilit=f40+ph+preservation+society#p158285

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27824&p=128444&hilit=f40+ph+preservation+society#p128444

There are several important questions to keep in mind. These include:

What is the theme of the story we are telling? Is it steam? Is it railroad development in general? Is it city transportation? Could it be a past vision of the future (i.e., the early streamliners)? And interweaving in all of this is how do we get the resources, in space and time and labor and money, to take care of these large and expensive artifacts? And to get the space and time and labor and money, how do we tell the story of the equipment that connects with not only ourselves, but the general public and those who come after us?

We'd love to someday have on in the CRHS collection. They're definitely on the short list.

I agree about staying within the scope of the mission statement of the organization. Example if a museum has in its name the name of a particular railroad. Then collects as many pieces of equipment they can get their hands on, this does nothing to tell the story of that railroad. I was trying to speak more to the railroad preservation community in general. Also I recognize that "Museum Village of Steam" In Any State, USA would not be the proper place to try to preserve a SD50. But generally speaking are the museums in "your: region looking at looking toward continuing their mission statements into the future.

I know this does pop up here every so often, but I though I'd throw it out there just to see what kind og positive conversation it might stir up.

I am a strong believer in focusing of collections. We currently have 19 pieces of equipment. 18 of those operated within 150 miles of here in regular service, and number 19 is for sale. We might would consider something outside the region as a future addition, but only if it was a close substitute for something that operated in our area, and of which there were no existing or economically available examples.

Just wanted to throw this out there.

One of the things that I hear often, particularly from hardcore railfans or "foamers" are negative comments about places like Steamtown, KRM, and the Virginia Museum of Transportation. Typically, they say that those places all have pieces of equipment that rust away and that they don't take "proper" care of their equipment. In fact just today, I saw someone who made a video that is on youtube bashing Steamtown for all of their misfortunes and then went on to tell people not to go there for those reasons. In a way we are all guilty of not showing the most encouragement for a museum. Myself included. But telling others not to go somewhere simply because there is rust in the museum is simply rediculous.

I suppose the reality of the situation is that every railroad museum out there has a limited number of volunteers and money to carry out these tasks. Many of the younger railfans who are around my age would rather film and/or take pictures rather than join a restoration group. Many of those same individuals would not find it inappropriate at all to talk down about a railroad museum for what they consider, "lack of respect towards railroad equipment."

I am a little ashamed of myself to admit that I don't have a license, or a vehicle of my own, nor live close enough to a railroad museum to be able to volunteer at this moment, but you better believe that when the stars aline that I want to do everything I can to help keep these historical artifacts alive for future generations.

For any railfans who are my age that are out there, especially "foamers", need to get out there and volunteer time to these orginizations to help keep them alive well into the future. And we all need to show more encouragement and praise to what other orginizations have done up to this point, and what they will do in the future.

Alright, that's all I will say. Best of luck to all out there.

Martin

Well, their point is valid. Railway museums do a shoddy job of caring for equipment. And yes - that is the museum's fault, because they could divert "buy more stuff" money to carhouses at any time, and they didn't. The exception proves the rule: at carbarn museums, volunteers can actually overtake the rot. The open-air museums can't care for more than about a dozen pieces. Often, poor paint choice makes things worse.

The angry youtuber should be considered a wake-up call. To us all.

Younger railfans film/photoing is a rather old problem. The new threats are Microsoft Train Simulator and World of Warcraft.


Illinois Railway Museum. You have to ask? :) And sooner than you think :)

When I started this thread I made a point to not mention any names of any locations or museums. We all know that there is enough rust to go around and paint covers a lot of sin.

That being said, several years ago it was suggested that the Mark IV Roadrailers were being phased out and being converted to regular semi-trailers. At that time there was not a museum in the area in a position to handle such a donation. A letter was drafted to Wabash National Corp. for a donation of one to preserve an example of this technology. Over the years it took the efforts of at least 3 museums to keep it safe. It is now in the process of being cosmetically restored for display.

I feel that in the future it is going to take this kind of cooperation between museums in the same regions acquire, maintain and interpret the history of today's railroads in the future. It is bigger and smaller than locomotives, railroad cars, and stations. It could be as simple as writing down the stories of those who staff your local Amtrak Station, or keeping track of how high speed rail develops, or preserving the cars the Space Shuttle Boosters were hauled in. The time is now to think outside the box rather than worrying who isn't putting enough paint or the wrong shade of paint on equipment in their museum.

Once again just some of my thoughts. Oh and by the way most of us do live in glass houses...

Actually, we've already lost the pioneering "wide nose" or "crew/comfort cab" locos, the GE BQ23-7from 1972. Next in the "development" line would be the "Canadian Cab" MLW diesels, such as the M420, built 1973-77, and the M420R for the Providence & Worcester, then EMD SD40-2's for CN in 1975 on, and the cowled versions of the SD40-2, SD50F, and SD60F Then five extended-cab GP50's, 3158-3162, built in 1985, and then finally we'd get to both EMD and GE racing to get their "Canadian cab" locos out the door in late 1998; It appears that THE first of the cabs we now take for granted rolled out refitted to GE prototype test loco 808, which was renumbered to 809; EMD rolled out the first SD60M's a few months later, in January 1989, and the first GE commercial orders followed weeks or months later.

I suspect that 809 (or the former 809) is still lurking around East Erie somewhere......

The rusting equipment thing has been talked about here so many times it's not worth the keystrokes anymore.

As for preserving widecabs, who was thinking it was cool to preserve F units in 1965? That's where you are now with widecabs.

I think that wide cabs should be preserved as they come available, but not just any one. As with anything there should be a reason for the preservation. As these units go through their service life some will be involved in historic events and stand out. Examples would include the UP Heritage units, the BNSF green warbonnet, or one that has been used for some special event somewhere.

In the past locomotives and equipment have been preserved for several reasons the C&O saved the 2700 and the 2789 (the alpha and omega of their 2-8-4s). Several cars and locomotives have been saved because they moved the President of the United States. So are there wide cabs out there that fit into the same criteria? Amtrak has some historic pieces of equipment on their roster.

So I guess it comes down to what is still out there in service that tells the story of our history as it unfolds today.

Now, The Criteria for getting engines into already overcrowded museums is tough. The options for new equipment these days is rather tough too.

Most museums are underfunded and understaffed. Locomotives will start to deteriorate and as such, Rust and bad looking engines occur. (see RTC&HS to see what a group of volunteers who I'm not trying to call out on,) thank god they saved some of the older stuff. We have the only operating C630 at their museum, the First GP30, and many other examples. In the time between now and their inception, they saved a bunch. But then see the condition some of the engines are in, like their GP35.

We have many historical locomotives just laying around and languishing in backlots and fields. Some include the only PRR Alco C424,and the final GE U25B not in a museum.

My final point is some locomotives are set aside for preservation already. GM50, B&O 7600,and B&O 8595 are all to go to the B&O museum if CSX holds their word to them.

Somtimes I look back on older models and question when the next ones will be the first in museums. The WARM preserved the first SD40-2 back in 2004, The Ogden Union Station preserved the first SD40T-2 in 2008, and I guarentee the first SD50 will be preserved this decade.

If you mean "the first SD50 to be set aside for preservation," possibly. But it depends on whether the railroads decide to keep using them as frames for "SD50-3" rebuilds, as have CSX and NS. You could end up hard-pressed to find one with original equipment.

If you mean "the first SD50 built," you may already be too late. That title would belong to one of six or seven (rosters and reports vary) of the ten Kansas City Southern SD50's that were delivered in May 1981. Numerically-first (both in KCS number and builder's serial) 704 (reported by some sources as being officially released by EMD in June) has already been retired; 705, the first May-delivered loco, was wrecked and scrapped; and several of the remaining ones have been reported as in storage, retired, and/or turned over to National Railway Equipment in Silvis, Ill.

Mind you, I'm deliberately ignoring, as would most railroad preservationists shopping for a museum display, the shorter-frame "SD50S" model, of which six were delivered to N&W (6500-6505) in December 1980...... and which seems to exist primarily to give us railroad writers an excuse to use apostrophes to pluralize diesel locomotive model types ("SD50's"), rather than the no-apostrophe plural most writing stylebooks demand should be used with such acronyms or model numbers ("SD50s")..........

The question of who should preserve what is a function of the group's mission...

Our group is preserving California 19th century wooden narrow gauge cars....

A GE or EMD wide cab is not appropriate...

A museum of railroad technology might be... a museum preserving the history of American (or Canadian) railroad history might be... a museum preserving the history of a railroad which operated such a locomotive might be.

What is your preservation role....your preservation goal...

Are any current locomotives appropriate for your collection and interpretive plans