With all the recent talk about Chinese steam.... , afew years ago, I had read about a group in the east coast looking into the possibility of building a brand new New York Central J1 Hudson. This project was on the same lines as the A1 Trust in the UK, who recently built a brand new British Railways A1 class 4-6-2 ( see link : http://a1steam.com/ ) Does anyone know if thie NYC Hudson project ever got off the ground and if it did, who is doing it and what is the current status? Thanks - David Notarius, London UK (ex New Hope Pa)

I wasn't aware that there was a group investigating that possibility... But it's not the first time that I've heard that suggestion (I believe it was on the A1 trust facebook page, or was that a Niagara?). But, it would most likely be on the same general length of time and cost as the Tornado, seeing all the parts need to be built new... Maybe if someone gets some seriously large grants (in the $2 mil. range), you might be able to start such a project...

Not being an NYC fan, I wouldn't have a "dog in this fight", but would the replica group want to build one like that in the photo, or the "Art Deco" (Dreyfuss?) model that many of us associate with the 20th Century Limited?

It's not even April yet! There is no group seriously looking into building any large replica locomotive in the US.

Well, at least none that any of US have ever heard of.

Though it's entirely possible that some group has formed for such a proposal, if they haven't managed to get the attention of any of the folks who loiter here--Trains Magazine, Railfan & Railroad Magazine, the folks who make their living in steam locomotive technology in the 21st century, the folks who can find a way for such a proposal to pay for itself, etc.--then that doesn't bode well for its success.

Though, if someone comes forth eager to spend the proceeds from a $10 million donation or grant, don't send them away........ <:-)

I know for sure someone I know personally who has a lot of money but isn't a name in RR preservation, did look into building this exact locomotive as he rode behind one as a child. He contacted a Chinese builder with some blueprints and was quoted a price. Once he heard how much anyone coming after him for the same roduct would spend (after the tooling, any other copies would be less after the tooling was done), he decided to spend his money elsehwere.
This is a person I do know, not "a friend of a friend's neighbor heard of a guy..." kind of thing. But anyway, it long ago stopped being looked into.

That doesn't make sense. If he fears reuse of the tooling, then take possession of it, or sledgehammer it. Possession works better if you ever need spares, and makes sense because then you have a bargaining chip for anyone else who wants to make a similar engine.

Hi Guys;
The only thing I know, the group in question was looking into the possibility, such as working out the prices, locating blueprints, where it would run, and if everything feel into place - where to build it. Judging from what I had found so far, I think this project never got past the "lets do a quick write up to see if there is support and talk it over some pizza & beer" stage. I was hoping some one out there in RYPN land had some recent news. BTW, a NYC Hudson would not be my first choice for a new build steam locomotive. I would look into something a bit more flexibility in terms of where it can run, lighter weight, and less costly to run, at least as a first project.
Have fun – David Notarius, London UK, (ex New Hope Pa)

One thing is certain - if you're going to build a new NYC Hudson in China, it must be a good idea to get started! I wonder if there are "off the shelf" parts that would hasten the construction?

With the end of new steam construction in China many years ago (~1990?) and the shutdown of most steam operations since then, I doubt there'd be many parts available, much less suitable for a new Hudson.

As far as building a new locomotive in China, the Brits initially looked into having the Tornado built in Poland, which had fairly extensive steam facilities available, but they soon decided it'd be best to build it "at home". I suspect we'd reach the same conclusion.

Regarding tooling (and related to use of suitable Chinese parts), one point that has been brought up several times in several similar threads is that a new steamer need not have many castings at all, which would greatly reduce the tooling required for such a project. Large weldments could be used for the cylinders, frame, trucks, etc. About the only castings that would be truly required would be the driving wheels.

The boiler was fabricated--and then repaired--at DBM in Germany, however.

Having followed the A1 project from start to finish, I would suggest that the ultimate construction of the majority of the locomotive in the UK was as much for "political" reasons as it was for any cost reasons. I'm certain you'd find similar ethnocentrism if you seriously proposed the fabrication of any ride-behind replica of an American steam locomotive design in Germany, Poland, China, or even Canada.

I rather doubt you eliminate most of the castings. It's not like you can build a cylinder saddle out of stock shapes. But I do agree that it would be done in segments and then welded up as opposed to one giant casting which is somewhat of a lost art from what people say. But there is a reason for that and the reason is improvements in welding over the years.

So you would take the plans and find good places to divide it into segments which can be cast separately and make adjustments to the design to create good joining places. Better to have to recycle small pieces that just weren't quite right than going through a learning curve trying to cast the whole thing at once. Some machining can be done to the components as well as the precise machining of the join points. You might also add to the design such things as will help whatever sort of alignment jig will be used to assemble it. Be sure to budget for an annealing furnace. None around that big? Then you have to build one.

This might be beyond small scale fund raising and it would probably look bad for someone to give a grant to such a project when the money can be better spent preserving what we have...let along helping non-rail life saving charities. But if some very wealthy individual wanted to do this silly thing I am all for it. I think I would vote for the streamlined art deco NYC Hudson. But it might be fun to build a PRR T-1 exactly as they were, see how they run and see what alterations could have improved it.

But hey, how about the hypothetical fool with too much money get his/her feet wet by restoring a Big Boy first? At least we know that is doable even if impractical.

Steve

Steve- they were already building all-welded cylinders before the end of steam in the U.S. (although not on a wide-spread basis); IIRC this has been discussed here in previous threads. Welding technology has advanced considerably since then. All-welded frames are used for many types of large construction equipment and off-road dump trucks that are at least as large as locomotive cast bed frames.

The PA state archives has a drawing in their possession of a welded cylinder fabrication for the PRR K4s class locomotives.

Mike Tillger

And at least some of the PRR's big J-1 class 2-10-4's built during World War II had welded cylinder saddles and cylinders.