Finding an old diesel today is getting harder and harder. And if you find one, the cost to move it is prohibitive. So the only candidates will be those that are either already on or near your property and being used by a regional or short line, or you need to find a benefactor with deep pockets.

We were fortunate enough to be near an old plant (Roebling Steel) that had several old diesels sitting around waiting for someone to take them home. We moved a 100 ton GE center cab back in 2002 and then a 45 ton GE center cab in May. The 100 tonner was built in the early '60s and the 45 tonner in the early '40s. And it is sad but there was an 80 tonner, probably built in the '60s also, that went to scrap because as Murphy's law states, "the organization that wants it will be on the opposite end of the country."

So while preserving a diesel is admirable, it is significantly more difficult and more costly than other rolling stock. I wish we could save them all, but without funding from outside sources, it will be difficult at best.

Later!
Mr. Ed

This discussion brings up the issue (for traction preservationists) of modern light rail and rapid transit cars. I was amazed to visit Seashore Trolley Museum and see a set of 1979 MBTA Blue Line cars last month, and even to ride them through the Maine woods. In Southern California, there has been speculation about when the first group of San Diego Trolley light-rail cars from 1980 would be retired and whether one might wind up at a museum; some have already been sold to a line in Argentina. A concern with any recent locomotives or electric railway cars is the solid-state control systems; some of these units may be sidelined by lack of spare modules, while hundred-year-old cars with type-K controllers are still running.

Valid question. My own personal experience with trolley preservationists indicates that they appear to detest the mere concept of 'preserving" anything of the more modern era--i.e., anything with modules, circuit boards, pantographs, or solid state electronics--even more than the hard-core steam fans seem to detest diesels (you know, the guys who call them "diseasels"). I view this as a combination of part inexperience, part lack of technical knowledge, and part generational; but if this trend continues, we'll see trolley museums ride off to irrelevance even faster than steam-railroad-era preservation projects.

Well this obviously isn't the case everywhere, as Bob's post pointed out. Seashore has acquired an LRV and a rapid transit set, both from the 1970's, and other LRV's are preserved at museums in California and Oregon. IRM is raising funds to preserve a rapid transit set from the 1970's and Halton County has acquired a couple of traction work cars built in the 1980's about five years ago. Other museums, from what I gather, are already forming plans to include modern light rail equipment in their collections in the future.

I recall beating this subject to death some time ago, in a thread about preserving a BART train.

My recollection is that the consensus of informed, practical opinion was that "modern" LRV's and rapid transit cars needed to be preseved, but as static display pieces rather than for operation. This was both for practical operations and maintenance issues and because modern equipment does not fit with the replicated or original historic appearance of most traction museum railroads.

Also, if you believe in the "geezer theory" that rail museums only appeal to people who remember the equipment in service, how do you explain the appeal of open cars at traction museums that have them, or Randy Hees's horesedrawn railroad.

I forgot about the West Coast museums that have preserved San Francisco Muni Boeing LRVs from the mid-70's. There's one in Oregon at the OERHS museum in Brooks, and one at the BAERA museum at Rio Vista Jct. (near Fairfield CA), both are listed as "operable". Since BAERA has several Key System relics, their overhead is configured for both pantograph and trolley pole cars. Seashore has a Boston MBTA Boeing, which is listed as "stored operable." So there is a place for "space age" units in the preservation world.

And also the popularity of Civil War and Revolutionary War reenacting, tall ships, the "Steampunk" movement, or the continued presence and popularity of prewar automobiles at car shows. The "geezer" theory of recreating lost youth does account for the popularity of certain eras, but it does not mean that other eras are irrelevant, or unworthy of preservation. Taking the "geezer theory" to it's max, we should worry about preserving only stuff that is 20 to 60 years old. Everything else can be scrapped because it is irrelevant.............

WRM has a substantial supply of spare parts for our Boeing-Vertol LRV (although they may be the parts which never wore out and remained in stock until we purchased them -- future generations will find out...). However, if any electronics fail beyond what can be cured by changing circuit boards, that will be serious trouble. The car does have serious rust issues which I understand is part of the reason they were not rebuilt by MUNI.

I wrote the mission statement for the F40PH preservation Society to be open to other equipment as not to fall in the trap other organizations get into. There is a lot more modern equipment available then vintage equipment. Say any of your organizations pick up a comet car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cibJHE1dXRs A lot of people (at least around here) who come to museums have never ridden a train so they won't notice that it is the same rolling stock that was used recently in New Jersey but you know what they will notice? The air conditioning ;-)

A short perusal of recent threads will surely show there's plenty of vintage stuff going to scrap right now - and a lot of modern stuff is still working for a living. I wouldn't shy away from acquisition of vintage stock in my mission statement for any reason other than it isn't part of what we want to do - the assertion that there isn't any to be had is patently bogus. Maybe not free, next door, and readily interchangeable, but if it were easy everybody would be succeeding in it like we did in the 1960s.

dave

There have been some really great comments posted here on this subject. When i first posted the subject it was out of frustration from some past experiences and searching for a particular piece of a puzzle to tell a story. The frustration came from that feeling of being a day late and a dollar short. It made me wonder if others had ever felt that way?

In the past I had to work with a collection that did not really match the name of or the mission statement of the museum I was managing. I had an eclectic collection of mismatched equipment that was put together just because it was available and the price was right. Then there were other pieces that became part of the collection because the came from the railroad the museum was named for. However the condition was not taken into consideration and the restoration became overwhelming.

What ended up happening was we cloned what we could to look like what we really wanted or should have had in the first place. and other pieces were restored to resemble the linage of the heritage of mergers to tell the story after the name railroad became a fallen flag. At the time I moved away from there the newest part of the collection was built in 1979 and was restored to represent the last of the fallen flags there and the one it was built for. I felt at that time the next logical step would to have looked for a newer artifact from the the railroad that then and now serves that area. "Preserving today's history for tomorrow."

Then the other day while doing a consulting job for another area and looking for the pieces of the puzzle to tell a historical accurate story, I found out that first generation diesels were scrapped not long ago. Once. again I find myself recommending the cloning of lost equipment to tell the full story. I am also recommending to look and plan for acquiring appropriate future artifacts as they come available.

So to sum up what I am thinking from past lessons and post to this thread. The ones that got away are gone. If that means that a clone or a look alike is the best way to tell a story, then do what needs to be done. I also have learned that any history museum needs to be constantly preserving history including looking today for the displays of the future.