The grand tour began on my own, with a visit to Heritage Park, in Cheyenne, Wyoming, to check out Big Boy 4004. The day was windy, wet, and cold, so the images appear to be gray. 4004 is caught in the midst of refurbishment. Her paint is fresh, but incomplete. Her number plate and boards are missing, as are the lamps and lights. The cab is chained shut, but appears to have been stripped. Mechanically, 4004 appears to be better shape that the others I’ve seen. Her lubricator and chains are intact. I inquired in town after my visit, and was told the work is to be completed.











I requested a tour of the steam shops, and was invited to join a scheduled tour for another family. The yard alone is a museum of older railroad equipment, all with destinations. I asked tons of questions and spoke with the men who run the steam program today, so the information I am posting here can be considered solid as of today. Challenger 3985 is receiving fairly heavy repairs to staybolts and mechanical parts. The decision to bring her back into service was made by a group of steam men, one night over a few beers. All the restoration work was voluntary. She’ll be up for operation next season. FEF 844 is being readied for a major excursion, next month. She’s the pride and joy of the railroad, and will run indefinitely, assuming management agrees. What of 838? She has plenty to contribute toward keeping her sister alive. Eventually, her boiler may be transplanted, as well as her drivers, and tons more. Once she’s completely stripped, it’s likely the carcass will be scrapped. Her frame is severely cracked. What about running Challenger 3977, the great looking Challenger in N. Platte? Unlikely, but not impossible. What about running a Big Boy? The costs are huge, beginning with asbestos abatement. U.P. management is not onboard with such a plan. The 4000’s are much longer than the Challengers, also extra drivers are extra work. It remains possible, but extremely unlikely. Nothing is carved in stone, but don’t expect it. Would U.P. consider adding another locomotive to the active steam fleet? Believe it or not, 2-10-2, #5511 is getting serious consideration, in spite of her speed limitations. What about her severed pistons? Not a problem, these can be fixed in the shop. The C&NW F7A unit might get worked on as an artifact, but right now they are swamped with other work. The Rio Grande F7B, like the F7A, is a prize, and would be great as part of a heritage fleet set, but again, not about to take it on immediately. The gas turbine tender? Her Buckeye trucks will be salvaged, and the tender scrapped. The FEF 838’s tender? Still being stripped for parts, but contains some unknown liquid which requires disposal before it’s cut up. The E8B unit? Likely to be rebuilt and added to a string of E units, creating an A-B-B-A set! The E unit on the ground? Her cab has been sold to an individual, and once it’s gone, the rest will be cut up.
Now, it’s show time!











I get my chance to dream in the cab!


844's rods are beautiful pieces of machinists art!



















Tomorrow, we check out the Forney Museum, in Denver.

Thanks for the post. I was never too interested in the UP steam program since it was so foreign to my home or exposure. I had the privilege to chase the Frontier Days Trip from Denver and back this past July with some friends and I wish I had seen them sooner. Watching a full fleeted passenger consist behind a high drivered engine on home rails is what railroad PR was all about, and anyone could learn a lesson from them today.

Thanks for posting these trip reports and photos. I wish we had room for the Rio Grande B-unit in Golden.

Jim Barton

The only reason I see to restore a big boy is to keep it in shape, take your time work it as money works out.

Because of new boiler regulations it would require a serious revamp.

Aside from that its a serious fuel hogger. It was built for the primary reason, get the freight over Sherman Hill. Built for speed over the long western routes and the grades ensuing.

But I swear, if someone does bring a big boy back, think about how many times this engine has been produced in model form, you might have a most popular ride.
If you start a fund to restore one and see how it goes, you never know...

Are there any other preservationists here that think the parted-out carcass of 838 could and should be cosmetically restored and given to a museum? Does something have to be capable of future operation to be worthy of preservation? I will concede the argument that too much is already preserved and we need to carefully prioritize where our limited resources are directed, but if it were up to me, I would gladly trade away the weight of this engine in "preserved" center cab industrial switchers.

Performing a cab-ectomy and scrapping the hulk of #928 seems a bit of a waste too, but there are a lot of UP Es in captivity. If it was a B unit, I would feel different. At least I know of a museum that would be very interested in some of the distinctive UP E unit details on that roof.

I have to concur with Randollph R. Ruiz; it seems a shame to let one of the beautiful 844's magnificent sisters die.

Cracked frames are repairable with the usual application of that magic ingredient, money.

What a double header that would make!

I wonder where the UP would run the 5511. And I'm curious, is there any other locomotive in existence that has Young valve gear?

(Special links for Loco 112, who apparently is strongly interested in locomotive steam distribution):

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/appliances/valvegear.php

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/up5511-2.jpg

http://www.railarchive.net/rlsteam/gtw3523.jpg

Caption for the photo of GTW 3523, from Richard Leonard's Steam Locomotive Archive (Grand Trunk Western):

"An unusual feature of No. 3523 is its Young valve gear, in which the valve mechanism drives directly off the cylinder crosshead. In this view the valve gear and main rod are disconnected, which in the 1950s was usually a sign that the locomotive was on its way to the scrap yard. However, when I came across No. 3523 at the GTW's Battle Creek shops in the summer of 1953 she was awaiting repairs. Returning to service, she became the last remaining 0-8-2 on the GTW roster when renumbered to 3522 in 1956. After photographing this engine in 1953, I saw 0-8-2s operating in the yards at Durand, Michigan. Larry Bell (mentioned above) wrote me as follows: 'In Durand, the 3500s were used on the 'top end jobs' almost exclusively. They were nice riding compared to the 0-8-0's because of the trailer wheel. However they could be a difficult engine for a fireman, before conversion, because they had a long firebox and did not have a stoker. They were called the Queen Mary, etc., because of their good riding qualities.'"

Just to be clear, I think that ship has sailed. 838 is essentially dead given the vital organs that have been donated to its sister. The parts taken for 844 could be reproduced, but at great cost, and for what purpose?

My question is that even if it is doomed to static display, is it worth preservation? I would say it is, and I could think of a number of somewhat successful railroad museums that would be a good home for a large, modern dual-service UP steam locomotive. These are museums that represent regions where the FEF saw service, already feature equipment from the Union Pacific, but do not have any engines such as this in their collections.

Realize, 838 has given her heart, guts, etc., and will give more, but that leaves her with a broken spine, and if her boiler is transplanted, no lungs! Now, her cab might be a museum piece, and I'm all for that, but as she donates, used components off 844 don't go back on. As she sits today, the loco rests on her drivers and a cannibalized trailing truck. Her tender sits on the ground. I hate to say goodbye to such a selfless organ donor, but face facts. I was just in Council Bluff, not more than two-hundred miles away, where sister 815 stands whole, but neglected (see my previous subject post on this loco). There is another sister (833) in Ogden, Utah, as well. Double headers would be great but you're asking a "for profit" railroad to siphon off funding to do something which is not part of their mission. Consider what U.P. contributes in expenses and man power to run two huge mainline locomotives as a major contribution to the humanities already! As fa as the "E" unit goes, somebody has already purchased the cab, and perhaps some of the recouped money will go to keep the steam program going, or bring back 5511. Then there are the two "F" units, redeemable, but not funded as of yet. I'd much rather keep steam going, over reviving two "F's". Write to U.P. if you what to purchase some of that equipment. There were cabooses all over the place as well. Just be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. Union Pacific has been a historic preservation giant amongst its peers, and that should go overlooked.

Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis 146 exists, in part, with Young Valve Gear. It's an 0-6-0, but only the frame, and running gear survive. The boiler was scrapped by the TRRA prior to donation.

The locomotive is at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis, but is normally out of public view. It sits on a DODX flatcar in the tunnel most of the time.

WOW. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing your photos and taking the time to type up a report. It is a shame about the 838 but in the big picture her loss is minor compared to the fact that 844 has been kept running for all of these years.

Last time I checked, Council Bluffs, Iowa was over 550 miles from Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Ira Schreiber
Aurora, Colorado

A couple of points:

E8A 928 hasn't been owned by UP since it was donated to the Western Heritage Museum in 1981. It was sold to a private individual in about 2000 after being heavily vandalized. UP agreed to store it in exchange for the use of certain parts (including the trucks, IIRC) until the owner is ready to use the cab. It's sad to see it succumb to such a fate because it was one of the last four E8/9's that UP kept for executive service and Amtrak protection until 1980 or so.

There actually aren't that many UP E-units around. Of course UP has 951-949-963B and 966B which is awaiting restoration from its current steam generator car status. OERM has #942. #912 is in Connecticut masquerading as "NYC 4096". Wisconsin & Southern 10A is ex-957. There may be 2 other B-units as steam generators (971B & 967B) One other A-unit (909) may have been scrapped in New Orleans a few years ago. That makes 5 or 6 A-units and 4 B-units.

Just because UP is taking parts off 838 for use on 844 doesn't necessarily mean that they're discarding the old ones. Perhaps someday they'll offer the whole shebang to some museum as a 4-8-4 in "kit form" for cosmetic restoration. I think that would be a sad day because I don't see that happening while 844 or any of UP's other steamers are still in operation. They're not really under any pressure to dispose of 838 any sooner than that.

The UP 4-8-4 in Council Bluffs is FEF-1 #814. Recent photos show her to be relatively complete and in fair cosmetic condition for an outdoor display loco but with her boiler jacket (and asbestos insulation) still intact, unfortunately.

Again, kudos to UP for being so preservation-minded. I can't see how/why #5511 would be under consideration for operation, but it would be cool to see if it ever does operate!

I've seen the ex-UP ex-AMTK unit in NOLA listed for sale within the last couple of years, I think it is/was owned by a museum. I don't recall hearing about it being scrapped, but it might've been damaged in Katrina. Two Ike-damaged museum-owned F-units were scrapped in Galveston recently...

CD

I may have mixed #4307/909 up with a couple other decrepit ex-Amtrak E-units that got cut up in the South in the last couple of years.

Hi Guys;

One thing I've learned in my 21 years living in the UK, is that anything you think is beyond repair, can be brought back to life. I have seen this done with many locomotives in the UK, anything is rebuild-able, if you got the $$$ an the time. One example is ex Great Western / British Railway’s 4-6-0, 6023 King Edward II, which had a new set of drivers cast. See http://www.6023.co.uk/ . There has been worst off locomotives returned to operation than the 838. Most came from the Barry Scrapyard in Wales, see:

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/barry1.htm

http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/RailSte ... Index.html

http://www.penmorfa.com/Barry/

As I quote an ex High Iron Company engineer speaking to the late Sam Freedman about ex NKP 763, “ a Locomotive is not scrap until it is cut up into little pieces, otherwise, like the 6 Million Dollar Man, we can rebuild it – we have the technology!” Have fun – David Notarius, London UK