Les,

It is very interesting that you started this thread when you did. I had an advisory board meeting today on a project I am working on in Florida and they ask about using a model display to introduce the project to the public.

I have seen the N scale layout at North Judson and it is a great way of interpreting the history there. That has giving me many things to think about as to how Models can be used to pust the project in Florida forward.

Bottom line is I do think that models are something that is a useful tool in the preservation feild.

Mark A Frazier
M&M Consulting

I think a correctly executed, period correct, rivet counter special, layout, can truly be a wonderful part of any museum exhibit. With that being said it takes a very special modeler who can work with the restrictions that are required to create such a layout. I consider myself a pretty decent model railroader but there is no way I could work on a layout like that. As described earlier, I'm a "fantasist" railroader. So my words of wisdom to any museum proposing to add a layout as part of its display, do your homework, do it right, and don't skimp. Model Railroading is not a cheap hobby and a layout worthy of placement in a museum is a sizable investment.

My "fantasy" layout...
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/Margaritaman/San%20Dimas%20Southern/?albumview=slideshow

Margaritaman, what's so terrible about a true replication vs. a "fantasy" line? It doesn't have to be a true "rivet counter special;" heck, if that were the case, we would need live-steam models in HO scale!

Granted, a couple of potential problems are that some materials--structures, locomotives, cars--may not be available off the shelf. It can be assumed for something like this that you would have to scratchbuild most if not all the structures (unless some historical society has come up with a run of kits for something like a standard station or even a key structure, like the old shop buildings at Cass). Depending on the time period, freight and passenger cars may or may not be a problem; plenty of material is available for the "classic" era from the 1930s to the early 1960s and beyond, but the selection in the wooden car era is relatively limited, and the situation for locomotives going back that far is even more limited. Trolleys, interurbans, and electric roads have even more severe limitations in this field.

At the same time, I would regard this as an opportunity to work on something different from my own "home" road. It would be big enough to require more than one person on the project; the trick would be to find a structure man, and an equipment man, and perhaps a scenery man, who could do what you need. There may also be a question of having enough space if you are representing something fairly large. Still, models can be useful to recreating the past, and in the case of a restoration project, can be used, like architectural models, to give a glimpse of the future.

http://www.cassrailroad.com/showcase.html

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/ ... /shay3.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/ ... /shay2.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/ ... /shay4.jpg

However, I have to warn you, all the complaints you read about here in regard to contrasting visions and personality conflicts can be in model railroading, too, and in spades!

I would venture to say that the common visitor who comes to a railway museum views any model layout as a toy. I believe the educational value of such an exhibit is either close to zero or at zero. A model train layout for the kids could be entertaining and could assist in getting them to stay around a while with the hope that some real equipment with real displays are the educational experience for them.

Jim

It's rather subjective, but falls into the 'you'll know it when you see it' category.

I really appreciate the models when the site itself had a wonderful history that, well, just doesn't exist anymore and couldn't possibly be preserved. Structures remain as clues, but the entire context is gone.

They don't have to operate, really. It's a nice distraction for kids if they do, but they don't necessarily add to the interpretation.

I'll highlight three of the finest I remember....

1) NOT a railroad museum, but one of the best N scale models I've ever seen is the entire town of Pithole PA, at the peak of the oil boom. It's a monument to scratchbuilt structures of an entire city, historically accurate. Sadly the PA museum is in very limited hours.
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art ... /306049886

2) The historic model of Cass, WV in HO, on the site. That's the only way you can appreciate that the BIG THING MISSING IS THE SAWMILL. It runs, which is nice, but better than that you appreciate that the missing 800-lb gorilla is the mill and how big it was in comparison to what is left that is still there.

3) and a new entry, the very nice HO layout at the Railroad Museum of PA. Does a nice job of showing the equipment in historic context. Runs and explains the equipment reasonably well.

I've seen some others..well..... the Bath & Hammondsport model at the Visitors Center... inoperable and difficult to tell how accurate.

The Conway Scenic model, a nice HO layout, but essentially a model of what you just walked through to get there and doesn't add much to it.

I just recommended to one of my smaller railroad museum clients that they tear out their not-so-great model railroad and replace it with a gift shop.... and it was the right decision.

We actually have an operating HO layout in our window, as we are in an historic downtown in an ex-retail storefront. It's just pure train fun for the kids and the 'scenery' changes seasonally - we still have the Halloween stuff up today. We evolved over to a 2-minute timer to turn the entire thing on, with a pushbutton, after wearing out everything constantly became a pain. You're not going to easily keep running 'historically accurate' equipment and 'reliable equipment' in the same breath. Despite being an experienced modeler, keeping the thing running takes a surprising amount of maintenance and stuff is just constantly wearing out. In a museum context, I'd vote for a North Judson style; static, lit, maybe with a sound track and a narrative along with historic photos to let people 'get it'.

Something of interest, coming in from the Mason locomotive tender truck thread, at least partially courtesy of Robert John Davis:

http://usmrr.blogspot.com/

http://western-and-atlantic-rr.blogspot.com/

Comments by Mr. Davis:

"The reason I bring this up here is that these gents who are using model railroading as sort of a diorama in motion to capture the war era have developed a treasure trove of research and data. And contrary to what it may seem to someone outside of the Civil War buff circles, there's a lot more too it than The General and look-alike 4-4-0's.

"If you have a Civil War era restoration project or interpretive display in the works, I would contact them. While they may bring their research to life in 1:87 and 1:48 scale, their research is all 1:1 goodness."

And by Gary Gray:

"The "American Civil War Railroads Historical Society" is a great and very knowledgable group of people about that era. I'm a member, and have had the pleasure of "breaking bread" with Bernie, and sharing a fair amount of contraband Kentucky sour mash whiskey with Thom. The collective knowledge of the 1850-1870 era in that group is amazing. Many of them are current or former Civil War reenactors as well as rail historians."

Hi, Not sure where you got terrible from, but you're reading it incorrectly.
"I," personally, find it difficult to work within the exacting guidelines required for a layout like that and I've got a ton of respect for those that can.
Either way, it's the old 100 people, 100 answers. All I'm suggesting is that if in fact a museum is going to choose to have a model railroad on display, that it be the best they can afford.
In the end there is no wrong answer to the question because you can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm just happy that folks are taking the time to preserve railroading history in one way or another.

Cheers