It is currently Sat Aug 22, 2026 7:10 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:39 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
I knew there would be the questions about ownership but as I am away from home now and don't have much data available. However I do know that when the lawyers wrapped up the affairs of the Reading they contacted the museum about the loan. To make a long story short there was a long series of negotiations that wound up with the museum purchasing the locomotive from the RDG, with the money coming from one of the museum's board members, and it has been the property of MOT since then. The line in the RDG web site with a name in it identifies the board member who acted in the name of the museum but the sequence is garbled. And there is a difference between a inspection locomotive and a smaller track inspection car as can be seen in the photos of the two. The Black Diamond is an example of the smaller type of self-contained inspection loco, most of which had more than four wheels, and could run faster and further than the track cars with more people in comfortable seats.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:47 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2732
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Glad we have the ownership issue settled! Whew!

Anyone have an idea of how many full size inspection locomotives were built/rebuilt? I just learned recently that the Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis even had an inspection locomotive, a 2-6-0 rebuilt from a fairly stock 1880s vintage Baldwin 0-6-0.

I'm considering making an appearance at MOT on Thursday, given the slow Holiday week to have lunch with the Thursday streetcar crew. I'll try to remember to snap a photo or two.

_________________
David M. Wilkins

"They love him, gentlemen, and they respect him, not only for himself, for his character, for his integrity and judgment and iron will, but they love him most of all for the enemies he has made."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Illinois
There is a color photo of this engine just pre-donation in the Morning Sun Book "Reading Steam in Color". There is also a post-donation picture in this book. Did the museum re-paint it shortly after receiving it? These pictures make it look so.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
Here is a more complete story about the Black Diamond going to the museum and how it became their property: In July 1948 the Reading Railroad agreed in principal to loan the “Black Diamond” to MOT, but had found to its surprise that it belonged to the P&RC&I Company. After some delay its ownership was transferred to the railroad so it could be shipped free under section 22 of the Interstate Commerce Act. These details were taken care of and an agreement between MOT and the railroad was signed on March 4, 1949. The locomotive was loaded in a gondola car and shipped to the Museum on April 20, 1949. According to the waybills in MOT files it was routed over the Reading, Western Maryland, Pittsburgh & West Virginia, Wheeling & Lake Eire, Wabash, and Missouri Pacific. This becomes a probable routing of Reading to either Shippensburg or Gettysburg, PA; Western Maryland to Connellsville, PA; Pittsburgh & West Virginia to Pittsburgh Junction, OH, Wheeling & Lake Erie to Toledo, OH; Wabash to St. Louis; and Missouri Pacific to Barrett, the location of the museum. It arrived at the Museum on April 29, 1949 and was unloaded on May 3. A presentation ceremony was held on May 15, 1949.

The Reading became part of Conrail in 1976 and as the lawyers wrapped up the affairs of the Reading Company they discovered the loan documents. The Trustees of the Reading wanted it to be returned and placed at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. After some negotiation its sale to MOT for $5,000 was worked out. A St. Louis businessman and philanthropist on the board of the museum donated 69 shares of Proctor & Gamble stock with the stipulation that the proceeds of their sale be used to cover the purchase of the “Black Diamond” from the Reading Trustees. The Trustees of the Reading Company signed a bill of sale for the “Black Diamond” going to the museum on December 3, 1979.

There are photos of it being repainted without markings at the museum circa 1950, and we are not aware of any later such work on it, subect to correction of course. Dated photos in the 50s and 60s also suggest no further painting, and show two different small sheds over it. The handrails were not removed during this 1950 job and as the color found under them was the original raw umber shade of deep chocolate brown specified by Baldwin we think it is original. Some gold striping was also found there.

As there will only be limited exhibit space in the first phase of the new building only small items are being considered for placement there. Two others I have heard discussed are the 1834 Boston & Providence coach, which is like a concord coach on railroad wheels with leather straps suspending it on the frame, and the 1870s Bellfontaine Ry mule car which ran in St Louis.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:36 pm
Posts: 9
Location: St. Louis, MO
This is great news. I was pleasantly surprised to see it in the restoration shop a couple of weeks ago. It will look great when finished.

I had the same thought about operational status. I am a kinetic person, and I would love to see it move. However, I don't think this is the best candidate for operational restoration, especially since the museum has pieces more suited for the job (not that they ever will be restored to operation).

Hopefully the boxcab will make its way into the protection of the new shed too. What a waste of history if not.

_________________
Jake Branson
Museum of Transportation Volunteer
Photos


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Mgoldman wrote:
Image

Yo dawg, I heard you liked carbarns...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
There were at least 93 inspection locos on American railroads between 1845 and the late 1930s, and the Black Diamond is the only one left. It was retired about 1908 but kept as a relic used at various celebrations of the Reading until coming to MOT. There will be a general survey article of mine on them in the next issue of Railroad History, the journal of the R&LHS. In addition there were other articles on those of specific lines in recent issues of the magazines of the MKT, TRRA, and B&O historical groups with more in the pipeline for the NYC and PRR groups. I would be glad to write articles on the other lines that had them like the P&R/RDG, LV, DL&W, CNJ, Erie, New Haven, D&H, NYO&W, etc, and any interested editor should contact me off line.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Ron,

Thanks for all of the insight to her donation/display.

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:56 am
Posts: 604
Location: Rochester, NY
I have a small amount of info on inspection locos here

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scotty ... Angel.html

some prototype photos of several inspection locos, and info about my live steam model..

The LV's "Dorothy" almost survived!
Image
She was "preserved" in a sense..privately owned.
She was owned by a retired LV official who ran her on a small circle of track on his estate..the guy passed away, then his widow donated Dorothy to a WWII scrap drive! :(

Scot


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:09 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 38
The Black Diamond sure isn't in the condition that it was when "loaned" to the MOT back in the day. The Reading dressed it up with accent striping, according to various photos of it at the time. That seems to have disappeared over the years, and some semblance of care was taken with it, what with that sheet iron "roof" over it. Oh well, at least there isn't a tree growing up through it!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Illinois
It appears that the paint the Reading applied shortly before donation was fairly quickly painted over once received by the MoT. Does anyone know why?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
I can only say that there are photos of it being sanded down and repainted to a plain color without markings circa 1950. Some bubbles can be seen in the paint on it during the 1949 presentation ceremony. The photos were not dated but there are ones dated 1951 after the job was finished and as far as anyone now at MOT knows it hasn't been painted since. The small metal framed shed over it in the photo posted was the second one it was protected by over the years, although it was also in the open for some time as well. I met with curator Coby Ellison today and he advised that since they have found samples of the original "raw umber" paint under two handrail bases on the front of the body the engine will be repainted in this color, which is a very dark greenish brown. Lettering and stripes will be gold and the wheels and pilot will be red. All these match the colors listed on the original Baldwin specification sheet of 1889. It had all nickel plated metalwork and the deteriorated exterior parts are being re-plated while the interior ones will just be polished. When finished it should just dazzle the eyes.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
Location: US of A
Great news for this little gem.
While there were often hopes to find a way to bring this home to Reading country,
it is quite obviously in a good home.
Have you folks found everything you need for the lettering?
Sure am looking forward to seeing her all sparkly once again.

Steve G.
RCT&HS


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
Everything seen in the photos on hand shows the same position, size, and style of side lettering. On the rear end we have two examples of the size and location of that lettering, with the only example from it in service having smaller size letters that are lined up with that on the side, while all the photos of it repainted as a relic have the larger size letters at a lower level, centered on the rear panel. If anyone in the RDG group has access to in service era photos like lantern slides or stereopticon cards we would love to see those images as time it short. They hope to get it done by the end of February. And an update to the RDG web site page on it would be in order too. In trying to reserach its history I would love to get a good idea of how long it was exhibited at Birdsboro, PA, where it spent quite some time in the early to mid-1920s.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the "Black Diamond"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
The museum's good friend Gordon Carter has an excellent web page on the "Black Diamond" which includes documents from the museum files as well as many photos. It can be found at http://www.gcarter.us/blkdiamond.htm. The photo of the tiny smokebox door is one of my favorites.

_________________
Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: