Perhaps there is something in their business plan that aims to try to grab more tourism from Europe. Yeah........ I know- Europe is not flush with funds but there is several hundred million of them and this may prove to be a drawcard for some.

Just a thought...

Wes

Matt, are you sure that it isn't an "unknown quantity" but rather a quantity that isn't personally appealing to you?

I'm not sure David, but thru my admittedly green-and-gold tinted glasses, I still think the 1149 plan stinketh, and at that, right much.

Matt

We all have biases. It usually isn't a problem, as long as we are aware of them and how they affect our judgment.

My personal theory is that GSMR purchased the Swedish set for the coaches, NOT the steam locomotive. You got a pretty good deal for a full trainset, and the steam engine is a bonus.

GSMR could have had steam running on that line a long time ago if they actually wanted to invest in the place. The article that came about where they are using GSMR as collateral to buy Ghost Town in Maggie Valley (think of a low-rent Tweetsie without the train) tells me all I need to know about what they think of the railroad. People have tried for years to make Ghost Town fly, and none have succeeded. For whatever reason, AHS has not invested very much money in the GSMR, and the offer (which may still stand) for someone to buy 49% ownership in the railroad doesn't bode well. The initial plans were to be all steam within 5 years of the purchase date with at least 3, if not 4 turntables. As it was, reality didn't live up to the plan, and within 5 years, there was no steam and save for brief visits by the Flagg Coal 75, it has remained that way since.

GSMR thrashed 1702 day in and day out from March through December most years running the thing at--or beyond--its capacity. They had a diesel on the back of the train for assistance when needed, but that diesel normally wasn't used unless 1702 was about to stall. I've seen 1702 go down to about 1/2mph coming out of Bryson City on a wet morning on the fall with a diesel on the back end, and the sound was just amazing. Memory says that they were putting about 50k miles a year on the engine on sharp curves and steep grades for the entire line. Remember, you are talking a railroad that can't handle a 2-8-2 like 4501, and 722 was the biggest thing that Southern ever ran on that line. The 1702 was tested day in and day out for 12 years as hard as any engine in tourist service.

As far as asthetic looks, the US Army 2-8-0s aren't exactly the prettiest things in the world, but 1702 looked very respectable with the modifications that had occured over the years. Also, as anyone who has ever heard the 1702 or the 610 at TVRM will attest, those US Army consolidations have a serious claim to being one of the loudest engines out there when under load. With long passenger trains and grades going up to and possibly beyond 4%, the 1702 spent a fair amount of time working hard at GSMR.

Now, unless things have changed, 1702 needs a fair amount of work at the moment, and you have conversion back from roller bearings that never quite got fixed correctly, which is why the engine stayed on the Dillsboro end for most of her last season in 2004. No idea where she stands on the FRA requirements, so its very likely that would have to be factored in also. Either way, it's not a cheap fix.

722, suffice to say, is probably in worse shape. Perfect engine with ties to that line, but you are going to have to sink a LOT of money into it to make it operable.

Option C is the Swedish set, which gives you another set of passenger cars and an operable steam engine in good shape and apparently good to go, for less money. I've heard rumours that the plan is to turn it into a Harry Potter-themed Hogwarts Express, but no idea if there is any factual basis to back it up. Certainly wouldn't appeal to the casual railfan, but there might be a significant market there to tap into, though with the movies and books finished, I would think that market is growing up rapidly. Still, even the Dillsboro end of the railroad isn't exactly flat with a couple of good grades in both directions, and one has to wonder how effective a high-drivered passenger engine will be on that railroad.

Either way, the railfans are not going to be the ones to make steam operation profitable at GSMR. Steam will certainly bring more railfans to photograph the train, but the actual ticket revenue from our group will be minimal. GSMR is no different in economics than anywhere else, and the difference in ticket sales from railfans in regards to money generated by 722 vs. any other steam engine out there doesn't come close to equaling the cost difference. If anything brings about the restoration of 722, it will be the extra revenue generated from the difference in pulling power without having to run a shorter train or have a second crew for a diesel, not nostalgia.

Either way, the Swedish engine is a cheap fix to test the market for steam, but with ticket prices running at close to $50 for a diesel ride, I don't see steam rides going cheaply. The Dillsboro/Bryson City area isn't Durango, and it never will be. You're talking about a depressed area, and the nearest big cities (Atlanta and Charlotte) are both at a 3hr drive. Add up gas and 3-4 tickets for Mom, Dad, and Kid(s), you are talking about a VERY expensive day.

I wish them the best, but remain very, very skeptical. They could have had steam running a long time ago if they wanted to spend the money, yet 1702 and 722 are still sitting half assembled in Dillsboro where they have remained for the past 7 years.
Kevin

I think you guys should look at the GSMR from a different point-of-view. Add in many other organizations in my opinion too. Here we go....

GSMR should never have taken #722 apart. I was in Chattanooga when she was towed away to North Carolina and I was there when #722 was pushed onto the GSMR right-of-way in Sylva. She had been given a crisp/clean paint job at TVRM in 1992 before being shipped to North Carolina. She looked great and didn't have any crazy wheel bearing anomalies when she was being towed either!

The TVRM guys can tell you exactly what repairs were needed to put #722 back in service...it was not a big secret. TVRM did not want to put money into an engine that they did not own and the repairs needed were of a type that TVRM wasn't probably capable of performing in a timely fashion in the late 1980's/early 90's. The running gear was tighter then #630 at the time, but the boiler was in need of attention. Again, these are facts...anyone that was around at that time will tell you.

So like so many other railroad museums, tourist lines, and well intended people...GSMR immediately tore down the #722 for "restoration". What a mistake!!!

I think there should be a real push by the historic preservationists and operators to THINK BEFORE YOU ACT!!! It doesn't make much sense to start open heart surgery on a patient...without having all the tools and parts in place to fix that heart! Does it? Don't tear boilers, smoke boxes, wheels, brakes, etc off engines when you don't have ANY MONEY in place to complete the repair.

If you go on any of the steam locomotive websites...you just see one after another, after another, after another engine...that has been "started" but stopped due to lack of funds or know-how.

BTW - The whole the turntable piece at GSMR....should have happened years ago. GSMR contributes...even with diesels...a nice chunk of change to the local economies in lower Western NC. I think they should be able to ask for assistance from the local governments to a degree. The local governments should think about obligating their dollars not to operation, but to equipment/property management.

I hope that reason prevails in the valley. The Swedish steamer is an interesting addition, but it will never be able to perform consistently because of it's size. Again, interesting, but the wrong size and type. Before Greg Dodd passed away prematurely...it might have been plausible to consider a special weekend or two with a certain TVRM #630 pulling trains to the gorge.

Just saying'

It might also be worth bearing in mind that this is the same corporation which routinely fields the largest fleet of operating steam and dispatches it into some of the heaviest daily service in North America. I speak of course of D&S, and am not not even factoring in their recent contracts to operate CATS, or Texas State.

AHR employees seem to keep a low profile and stay miles away from these spitball fights.

But I can't help but think that the boys in Durango can provide AHR with all the expertise it needs to evaluate the condition and economic prospects of a locomotive, or come up with a budget and workplan for restoration.

Agreed, Erik.

I had the pleasure of riding the Swedish train in Maine. I have to say, it was a great experience and that 4-6-0 is a beautiful machine.

If Unity,ME wasn't so far out of the way, it might still be running. But the B&ML is another story for another day...

Rob