Jason,

Interesting. I'm not disagreeing with you, but your information is far more extensive than anything I've ever read about what was done during the 1960s. The L&N Historical society did a two part story on the General back in the early 1990s and that information wasn't in there, nor do I believe it was in the James Bogle articles that were later turned into the softcover book. You've obviously tapped into source material that hasn't been published, and is thus more informative than other sources.

I'm just saying that this would make an interesting article for publication somewhere.

Also, I am curious of some of the work could attributed to work done by the NC&STL in the original 1892 "restoration" rather than the 1960s work.

How were you able to tell the boiler wasn't wrought iron?

David

I'm also interested, as Jason mentions a lot more documentation than was available when i was there, probably dealing with the same people he met.

I'm wondering about the wrought iron thing too.......the firebox and throat show presumably arc welded patches, but the photo of the boiler taken during the 1960 restoration shows what looks to be a circular riveted patch about where the second dome would have been originally.........based on the painting. So, we may have a hybrid of steel and wrought iron in the same boiler, or perhaps the grade of wrought iron was weldable.......or a gas welder made welds that look like arc welds. The 1960 form 4 shows "WROT IRON" and calculations were only shown for the longinitudinal seam using the lower wrought iron tensile value. The smokebox and saddle was a new looking welded fabrication, and the cylinder I got inside showed a new steel piston with modern rings, rather than 1860 era Junk Packing.

In any case an academic discussion. Maybe for the 200th.....I'll miss it but Jason might still be around.

dave

Below, as displayed in the Southern Museum http://www.southernmuseum.org/exhibits/the-general/ in Kennesaw, GA.

As a Civil War buff and reenactor, I've thought for a long time that a remake of "The Great Locomotive Chase" would have the potential to be a far better movie than most of the crap that is out there on TV or the "silver screen". Think about the possible cast..."Leviathan", and her new sister or B&O 25 in the starring roles. Maybe the "V&T Lyon" as "Yonah". Nicolas Cage as "Andrews". Ewan McGregor maybe as "Fuller". What's his name from CSI Miami as "Murphy". I can think of some suitable track here in Virginia to do some of the filming, along with some footage in Tennessee. Heck, with lot's of "Grecian Formula" and my well known ability to impersonate Slim Pickens (Whew, we dang near lost a $400 handcar....) I might could even play "Pete Bracken" I've already got the costume...Are you listening, Ted Turner?

Gary, you let me know about this, maybe you can use someone who is fat and bald. . .me.

I can likely get a couple of tall, skinny, guys, too--and one of them has been in "Gods and Generals." Be forewarned, though, he's a strong Pennsy man!

I have several friends who were in "Gods and Generals", both short & fat and tall & skinny. All "Unreconstructed"

Hi,

Does anyone care? Yes - I think many care but the current economy (since the turn of the Century 1999-2000) has put the brakes on too many good and bad ideas.

The General did NOT have the building built around it. I have a Super-8 Movie I took the day the General was unloaded from the L&N flat car in front of the current building - snow flurries and all.

I also have an 8-mm home movie and vague memories of the 100th anniv. with the L&N running the General, an F unit powered train representing the Texas and another diesel representing the Inyo(?). There were 3 tracks in Kennesaw at the time. Only the 4th steamer was not represented.

The "Texas" had the Cyclorama built around it down in Grant Park. The rebuilding of the Cyclorama some 10-20 years ago has made the Texas accessable for possible but very unlikely movement. Surprising that the Civil War "Texas" and Cyclorama have not been "attacked" by the current neighborhood.

Up until about 4-5 years ago, the General II and the Texas II were out at what had been Stone Mountain Memorial Park. One of the two was moved to the Southeastern RR Museum and is expected to be returned to its Louisiana RR 1920's look. I think the last steam at Stone Mountain Park was the New Georgia RR running the Dinner train.

With the creation of Dunwoody GA North of the City, a few years ago, we inherited a 102 acre park from the County. A few in City Council were interested in a small 36" gauge railroad for a tourist draw and a possible dinner train. Recreations of WWII short line trains, Civil War era reenactments, 1890's era reenactments, 1950's recreations, and simulations like hooping up orders were talked about but it never had the support come together for it to move to a formal study stage. It was expensive. The Roswell RR ran through and created Dunwoody as a section crew station and ended up with a saw mill, cotton gin, furniture factory and a few other items.

Roswell RR was 36" from 1881-1907 and SG from 1907-1921. No operations were on the line between 1921 and the removal of rail in 1924.

It just takes money and a NG trainset a la the D. F. Barnhardt used would have been nice but expensive. The last bond referendum for Dunwoody for a sports complex on 21 acres that is currently an apartment complex was defeated (defeeted - cut out from under them <grin>) 2-1. The economy had the voters worried - no solid stable future and dropping unemployment while there are 4 workers for each job opening were most mentioned in the local weekly newspaper.

I'd hope that the economy will turn in the future so items like recreating the General's chase would become more likely.

My 2 cents worth.

Doug vV

P.S. can anyone name the 4th steamer involved in the Great Locomotive Chase?

Yes. In order....General, Yonah, William R. Smith, Texas. The Inyo was a V&T Engine. It's only involvement in the story is that is "played" the role of the Texas in the Disney Movie, "The Great Locomotive Chase."

/Kevin

Sad, sober thoughts about a remake of "The Great Locomotive Chase". . .

First, we have to ask if Civil War themed films do well at the box office. I understand "Gettysburg" did well, but "Gods and Generals" did not; there is still some controversy and money owed on that latter film in Washington County, which helped pay for it.

I also understand that Disney had two "prestige" projects in the works in the early 1950s. One was, of course, "The Great Locomotive Chase;" the other was "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea." Both are truly classic Disney, but only one has become something of an icon. I also wonder which one had a better box office draw when new.

Then there is what we do get, and get for viewers, when we do have a rail-themed film; think of "Extreme Trains" and "Unstoppable" (although I understand "Unstoppable" actually did fairly well).

Those are the negatives. Against those, we do have a colorful episode out of the Civil War, and interestingly, there is a possibility that a remake of "The Great Locomotive Chase" wouldn't have to be a budget-buster. Others have mentioned that authentic stand-in equipment is available and essentially ready to go, at least as far as locomotives are concerned. (How much would it cost to build some new freight cars and a couple of coaches?) We also have the luxury of not having some huge battle scenes to stage; at most, we would have a large encampment scene, and much of that could be tricked for the camera at relatively little cost.

One important consideration: Ted Turner, the last I heard, was in rather reduced financial circumstances due to the sales deals with Corporate America and other things. I'm afraid his one-time hobby of financing Civil War films may be on hiatus at best.

Wonder if he or anybody he know reads this page?

Oh well, dreams can be interesting, I suppose. . .

A final comment: not covered in any detail in either Disney's or Keaton's films was the fate of the raiders. Their prison experiences make up about half of the book, "Danger and Daring" by William Pittenger, which was the primary source material for Disney's effort. That part of the story was also fascinating, although lacking the colorful action of the chase itself.

Of course, some "unreconstructed" types may not like what Pittenger had to say about the people running the trial of the raiders. . .

I'd encourage the more recent "Stealing the General" (Roswell Bonds, 2007). He debunks some of the self-promotional bias in Pittenger's and other earlier biographic histories and reports.

dave

What effect did changing the track gauge from 5 feet to Standard have on the historical fabric of the locomotives? Is there any trace of how the change was made left to be seen today?

I remember seeing the General running through Rossville IL. on the C&EI back in the early 60's on it's way to Chicago.
I was pretty young but it sticks out as the first time I saw a live steam locomotive.

DAVE h.

Jim, I'll defer to Scott or Mr. Lathrop, who have both studied the locomotive in a "hands on" manner, but I believe the change was made by changing out the pilot wheels, sweating "in" the driver tires and pressing the tender axles in.

There are a couple of decent photos of her taken in the 1870s and 1880s that pretty much reflect the general outline of how she looks today, minus the coal burning stack.

I also wonder how much work was done in the 1890s by the NC&StL at West Nashville to make her operational and a display engine.

Slim Pete -

If I'm not mistaken, there is even a pre-Civil War tunnel in use somewhere that suspiciously resembles Tunnel Hill, Georgia (and it isn't far from there either!)

"Phil"

Without the cgi crap that ruins too many films today, it would be a terrific movie. Just get great writers and do the research!