The British magazine Steam Railway did a good article a few years ago comparing the S-160, the British WD 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 locomotives and the German "War Locomotives." All of them had good and bad points. The German locomotives, if I remember correctly, did not have a lubricator, so the process of lubricating the engine is quite long, as you have to go fill up the various little "cups" on the locomotive.

Interesting. Obviously, all these locomotives lasted MUCH longer than their original design requirements.

First, could the full info on the article be provided? Month, etc... I had read at some point that the german locomotives were even built with boilers constructed of materials no thicker than tmin.

This appears to be USATC #576 or 578 in Greece, surviving in USA paint?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/6868010017

Jason,

I'm not home this week, but when I get there I'll dig. If you PM me I may just mail you the magazine if I find it.

David

It is 576 in Archane

Hugh,

The 71000 Duke of Gloucester on the Cathedrals Express is very impressive. My wife and I rode it out West, then got off somewhere the cross-sectioned cylinder was supposed to be, missed it's departure going back to London, chased it on a commuter train (ran past us on the platform at least once) and finally caught it an got back on before the end of the trip!

Anyway, it has an amazing sound - quiet yet very sharp. That was probably one of my favorite trips.

Gary Bensman and I Kroiled USATC 611 a number of times when either of us were in Chattanooga. I spoke with Dennis Daughterly a few times who ran it and tried to make sense of what it had for cam profiles as he said you could not hook it up manually, and it did on its own. I could not find evidence of any sort of governor that would do that. What we were in agreement on is that it used an air lever for a reverser like an old garage shop center-post hoist has to run it up and down. My guess is that either you gave it a shots of air to bump profiles or it simply only had forward and reverse profiles of fixed cutoff. We may now never know.

I had proposed to TVRM to buy the cylinders and eccentric drives and apply them to a better locomotive like Alaska RR 557, which would leave them a parts source for 610 (611's rods are bent missing, etc among other things.) But they wanted the whole engine preserved. You would think that if 611 had been a real runner they would have left it complete - so maybe this version of "B" gear does not work well anyway and what has happened is for the best.

Anyaway, Chapelon liked to drive poppet valves with conventional harmonic valve gear and then reduce the motion and provide the acceleration a poppet valve can do with a roller oscillating cam right off the valve stem lifter. The advantage is that the motion stays large while it is being derived and sent to the valve box and is subject to less error from lost motion or mal-adjustment as is typical in the RR environment. Skinner Horizontal Unaflow steam engines use this same setup.

My suggestion to ambitious individuals is to simply re-cylinder a locomotive. Skinner had a nice design for a steam tight Lentz valve that uses a "free seat" so it stays steam-tight at all temperatures. We have a lot of the patterns and parts you would need. Let me know when you are ready to start!

Matt,

That's a cool story about the Duke. It has to be one of the most amazing restorations ever.

We've previously discussed the 611 here. One of the guys from TVRM said it has some sort of "simplified" version of Franklin Type B poppets. I guess this would make sense for an Army locomotive; maybe it was an attempt to simplify the operation? Sure seems like there'd be some documentation about it somewhere.

I guess locomotive poppet valves don't hold quite the fascination for me that they used to. Ing. Porta was not a fan and he makes a pretty compelling case for sticking with piston valves (of optimized construction) in his paper on the Porta Compounding System.

Hugh,

I had a similar opinion to yours until I started working with Skinner engines and saw the solution to poppet valve leakage - the free seat. I now believe that the poppet valve is a better solution thermodynamically - there is less throttling of the steam at the point of admission because it has a large area with less clearance volume, and cam profiles can open this area faster than a piston valve.

That said, I think the Porta piston valve is sufficient for locomotive applications thermodynamically and superior for the railroad environment from a maintenance and repair standpoint. Poppet valves and drive gears are just too delicate compared to the rest of a steam locomotive.

Interesting about the Skinner poppets, Matt. I guess I need to read up on them.

I found a thread on another forum (trainorders.com) about 611 that I started a few years back. Apparently the poppets on 611 were designated type "D" but no other details came out. A couple of guys posted some nice shots of several S-160's including 611 from their days at Ft. Eustice.

Here's a link to the thread: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... 10,1770162

You can read the thread but you have to subscribe to see the photos. I "borrowed" one cabshot of someone running 611 which clearly shows the reverser for the Franklin poppets:



I wonder if the Lima archives (if they have any Franklin info) might have some info on this setup?

I apologize for stirring up an old thread, which I realize many on this board dislike.

But anyway, I thought I would share the news that 40 year resident of the Cass scenic railroad deadline, USATC #612 is on her way to JJJ's Age of Steam Roundhouse in Sugar creek Ohio. #612 was being stored at a Georgia museum in the interim, and was being slowly worked on by Steam Services of America. Personally, I find this to be very good news not only for the locomotive for S-160s as a whole.

On an entirely separate and irrelevant note, Langley-Eustis Joint Military Base (aka Ft. Eustis) held a large open house and celebration in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War yesterday and today (May 15-16). I was only able to attend yesterday for about an hour, but from what I was able to take in, It was a really great event. Tours were offered for both the Gray Locomotive Shops/Transportation School, as well as the Unites States Army Transportation Museum which is on base. The Norfolk Southern Veterans Unit, and Exhibit car were on hand for the celebration.

More at:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... 4.facebook

/Andrew

A cosmetic restoration of the #611 is a worthy goal. As far as making her operable again, please see my comments in "Biggest basket cases reborn" thread.

Sammy, thank you for your comment.

Please note the difference between USATC S-160s #611, and #612. They are easy to confuse, as they are both S-160s and veterans of the U.S. Army Transportation Corps at Ft. Eustis, VA.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27687

#611 is from TVRM at Chattanooga, and currently resides in Eckhart Mines MD, owned my Mr. Bill Miller.

#612 is from Cass Scenic, and is currently being transported to JJJ's roundhouse.

/Andrew

I did indeed get the numbers mixed up in my post, but you can be sure the one I mean is the 611 !!! Just making that one look presentable will be a monumental task. The only way it'll ever run again is if you jack up the whistle and build a new engine underneath.

In that thread they show 611 en route to Maryland, or maybe a link, either way check out the chains and boomers on the RODS. YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I have to say, somebody has done an enormous amount of work on 611 !!! I never knew there was any metal left in the thing when I got it ready for shipment to Tennessee. I thought it was made entirely of flake rust, boiler scale, and asbestos. The present owner must be a red blooded American patriot --- I hope he has a better time of it with his 0-6-0 !!!