It’s not RR-related but when I was active duty Army (1999 if I recall correctly), we were doing a tactical exercise on a seldom-used portion of the post we were at. Myself, the other officers and the NCOs had done a ‘leader recon’ of the site twice and found some old WW2-era artillery observation bunkers and decided to make them part of the scenario. We didn’t have anyone in them but the idea was to let the soldiers stumble onto them without knowing they were there to see how they’d react. When it happened, I got that fateful radio call, “We’ve found a group of bunkers with two-zero individuals inside. We’ve secured them, standing by for further, over.” I’ll never forget that moment, myself and two NCOs standing over the hood of a Humvee with classic, “What the?” looks. We ran up and sure enough, there was a large group of these “urban explorers” who had also recently found out about these bunkers. They were all sitting on the ground with their hands behind their backs in a circle, surrounded by my people with weapons pointing at the bewildered group. Somehow they got through the gates of a secured Army installation. My soldiers thought they were part of the scenario and did an admirable job handling them by the book. I was proud of how they tactically handled them, but was terrified at what would happen later once we freed them. They had all been flex-cuffed and were under armed guard (only blanks, but I doubt any of them recognized blank adapters, especially at a moment like that). This group had apparently been doing all kinds of tours like this and NEVER with permission. I bet they all thought twice after we got hold of them. And no, I didn’t have to ‘stand tall before the man’ afterward like I was sure I would at the time. The group never lodged any formal complaints.

p51, that's a funny story.

Robert, great quote. Being sued is like being shot at - rarely fatal, sometimes thrilling and something most folks survive.

Well, it's not exactly a case of "urban explorer" problems, but it IS a trespassing issue. I stumbled upon this video early today, and it agitated me quite a bit. The video in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhsyEeJkCE0
It's an issue that happens at a lot of museums, from what I understand, but I've never seen it go as far as trespassing in the cab of a (near-operable) locomotive in plain sight, and to have it posted on youtube...! People need to understand that railings, chains, and fences are their for a reason. They're for visitor safety, and by ignoring them, you not only endanger your own safety, but the operation of the entire museum.

*stows soapbox back in closet*

In another video made that day (apparently), the maker claims that the two of them had gone up as volunteers at Steamtown. Not quite the same as breaking in after hours, but still not exactly "responsible" behavior.

To my knowledge, the two have no other experience at Steamtown besides being "RailCamp" graduates. Personally, they look a little too young to be volunteers (18 years of age is the cut-off, I believe). I agree, not breaking-in after hours, but by no stretch of the imagination responsible.

OK, I'll take the other side of the debate. In the video, which is available to the public world wide, I see what appears to be an unprotected twelve foot drop, from the deck of the uncoupled engine down into the pit. I thought Steamtown was run by the NPS? Where's the safety officer?

How embarrassing, to have your safety lapses shown to the world.

Consider this: at Yellowstone National Park (another NPS site), a visitor walks along a wooden boardwalk three feet away from a pool of scalding, 200 degree acidic water. No railings, no buffer zone, no safety nets. It's a case of "stay on the boardwalk because you will die if you leave it." There's appropriate signage, but except for the occasional ranger leading a walking tour, there are no "safety officers" standing at the ready at each pool. To get two where these two goofballs are, you have to knowingly go through/over at least two clearly marked barricades (again with the appropriate signage) , sneak along a roundhouse floor, and climb a ladder into the cab. Just because there's no one there explicitly saying you can't do something, doesn't mean you should. Just because no one said you can't go for a swim in Seismograph Pool doesn't mean you should.

These scalding pools, right? http://bradlyjboner.com/?p=255

Yes, those. Looks like Norris Geyser Basin. Another good example can be seen here. That isn't just muddy water, that's muddy skin-burning/eating water.

http://0.tqn.com/d/gocalifornia/1/0/P/2/YELL-1-30a.jpg

All I'm trying to say is that there are other National Parks that have safety hazards that are somewhat less-protected than those at Steamtown. At Yellowstone, they tell you not to approach the bison, but tourists come right up next to them and sit their kids on them for photos! Put up all the signs and railings you want, but sometimes you can't stop stubborn (or stupid) people.

Forget the trespassing kids. I was thinking about the employees and volunteers. Unlike Yellowstone, this is an industrial workplace, those that are working there deserve a safe workplace. Oh, but I forgot, the Federal Gov't has exempted itself from all the regulations it imposes on the rest of us.

I suppose, if OSHA had jurisdiction, they'd want a three rail safety railing with a toe board, and not be happy unless it was painted yellow. I think it would have been prudent if the crew that uncoupled the tender would have strung a rope across the back of the cab, to keep someone who went in the cab for whatever reason from mindlessly walking out the open back while still preoccupied with his task.

Safety is a culture. There are some things that should just come naturally, but only will if the culture is nurtured and maintained.

I think Dennis has a very valid point, scalding pools notwithstanding.

I can’t explain the federal acceptance of the scalding pool hazard, but I would say that it is clearly, somehow out of context with what is accepted as risk in an industrial workplace.

Up in the Michigan copper country, there are some 100+ year old mine openings deep in the forest. The forest service is intent on sealing these openings to the point of obliterating any evidence of their existence. Previously, local efforts had the shafts nicely protected by rustic wood rail fences and signs. Many people like to see these historic mineshafts, and consider them to be valuable historical artifacts. These are manually made adits and shafts blasted into solid rock. Some date from as early as 1850, and they have acquired quite an intriguing forested patina over the years.

The forest service agrees that their mission includes the preservation of all historical artifacts. But while it is rather obvious that the forest service understands things like bat habitat, they have utter disdain for even the mere symbolism of mining. So while insisting that they are about preserving history, they obliterate mine sites ostensibly in the name of public safety.

While these mines were very dangerous to work in, and claimed many lives while in operation, there has been almost zero deaths or even accidents in over a century of the possibility of people falling into some of them since they were abandoned. The forest service has no worries about people falling off the numerous cliffs or drowning in raging rivers up there. On the contrary, they structure access to these places and encourage people to experience them.

However, when it comes to regulating the industrial workplace, there are no inconsistencies. The unguarded, open drop out of the back of that cab is a monumental sin. It is particularly dangerous because it is an anomaly in an environment that is routinely occupied by people who are deeply familiar with the space and would tend to take the layout for granted as though the tender were coupled to the engine.

Let's not forget this Gem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRaVomJh ... re=related

Along with all the "Rail Riders" and "Rail Bikers" who bandit-run all over the damn place on rides that are pretty flimsy.

NARCOA was organized to legitimize the motorcar hobby because there were too many bandit runners cheesing off the railroads. Of course NARCOA banned bandit-running by their members: get caught and you're out. This was supposed to motivate everyone to go legit. Instead the opposite has happened: the bandit runners have got organized.

In defense of "handcar stupidity:"

I'm well aware that the old-fashioned "handcar" is an OSHA nightmare. Yet, I've been the volunteer manning/supervising the handcar ride at a couple open houses and events, and let me tell you, it can be BY FAR the MOST POPULAR event at such an outing, especially if you give them the chance to get up even a LITTLE speed (and not ten or twenty feet into a rubber block).

I've run into visitors that, a year or two later, actually remembered me from their handcar ride, and for which the handcar ride was apparently THE highlight of their visit. Can they tell us which steam or diesel loco took them over to the enginehouse? Doubtful. Can they say what kind of railroad car they rode in? They may have to look at the photos. But boy, can they remember that momentary thrill of "soaring" down six hundred feet track at ten miles per hour (with me riding the brake pedal to keep their speed in check).

So what can we do about this? Can we exploit this thrill without creating an insurer's nightmare?