Steam Locomotive Sculpture to hang over ex-NYC High Line ???

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

Les Beckman wrote:

Also, although I couldn't find out exactly in the story, my guess is that this is going to be what it says...a Sculpture, and nowhere near to the real thing. Probably made out of fiberglass or something similar, to keep the weight down. My guess is that the chain holding the "locomotive" will be an intergral part of the Sculpture so that there will not be a lot of swinging in the wind (ART folks please offer opinions here).

As far as I can tell, that is correct.

Also, bear in mind that this fellow does "Performance Art". This would NOT be a permanent installation. It's like the fellow who put a giant fabric wall/ribbon in Central Park.

It shows up for a while, everyone oohs and ahhs, and then it's removed. The giant flowered puppy "Chia Pet" was installed for 3 months. It had also been displayed elsewhere. This installation would be similiar, and could potentially be used in other locations as well.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

By the way, most of us could learn something about PR from this artist. When's the last time your project got this kind of coverage?

Quote:

Jeff Koons 'Train' Sculpture Could Be Suspended Above The High-Line (PHOTO ...
Huffington Post - ‎3 hours ago‎
Artist Jeff Koons could bring a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive to New York City's High Line. The train wouldn't be on the old tracks of the former elevated rail line, however, but rather suspended above, dangling from a ... High Line May Mix Past With Koons's Vision
New York Times (blog) - ‎21 hours ago‎
By LISA W. FODERARO Image by James Corner Field Operations, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, and Jeff Koons. Courtesy of Friends of the High LineA sculpture by Jeff Koons, planned as a replica of a 1943 steam locomotive, could one day hang over the High Line. Jeff Koons Could Run 'Train' On The High Line...If Someone Pays $25 Million For It
The L Magazine - ‎1 hour ago‎
The completion of one of New York City's most romantic destinations could see an element of danger added to the experience—Friends of the High Line, the conservancy group responsible for the elevated park, is in talks with Jeff Koons over possibly ... Massive Koons Train Sculpture Could Float Above the High Line
DNAinfo - ‎1 hour ago‎
Koons' "Train" would dangle a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive over the High Line. ( James Corner Field Operations, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, and Jeff Koons. Courtesy Friends of the High Line.) Like something out of "Back to ... This Bizarre Replica Of A Steam Locomotive Could Soon Be Dangling Over The ...
Business Insider - ‎2 hours ago‎
A massive sculpture of a locomotive hanging from a crane may be installed along the High Line, a park in Manhattan converted from an old elevated rail line. The work, a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive, designed by the American ... 'Friends Of The High Line' Floats Hanging A Huge Locomotive Over The Park
CBS Local - ‎2 hours ago‎
An image of the proposed “Train” installation by Jeff Koons at the High Line. (credit: James Corner Field Operations, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, and Jeff Koons via highline.org) The design team of the High Line park is floating an unusual idea by artist ... Which Eccentric Train-Loving Art Patron Will Bring Jeff Koons's $25-Million ...
ARTINFO - ‎3 hours ago‎
Which Eccentric Train-Loving Art Patron Will Bring Jeff Koons's $25-Million Locomotive to the High Line? Image by James Corner Field Operations, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, and Jeff Koons. by Benjamin Sutton After two false starts and a cross-country ... "Loco" Display Would Hover Above High Line, Planners Say
NY1 - ‎3 hours ago‎
A new art installation could give the High Line a look that may seem a little "loco". Plans are in the works to install a replica of a 1943 steam locomotive engine by artist Jeff Koons over the elevated Manhattan park. The 70-foot sculpture, ... Massive Jeff Koons Dangling Locomotive Sculpture Proposed for NYC's High Line Park
Towleroad - ‎3 hours ago‎
The sculpture, by Jeff Koons, would be a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive. Called simply “Train,” it has not yet been fabricated. The Los Angeles County Museum of Art has conducted its own feasibility studies for the project ... 70-Foot Jeff Koons Train Replica May Hang Above the High Line
New York Magazine - ‎3 hours ago‎
By Eliza Shapiro Pop artist Jeff Koons displayed his massive, vibrant sculptures on the roof of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 2008, and now Friends of the High Line is considering funding a 70-foot sculpture of a 1943 train to hang above the park ...

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:10 pm

Whether we as a "community" like it or not, there are several ways this impacts us.

1) This proposal will come off, rightly or wrongly, as "rail preservation" in the eyes of New York City (and region) residents and officials, who are likely to balk if/when some similar proposal involving the real thing comes along: "Why would you want to park a streamlined diesel on the High Line for display? We already HAVE a steam locomotive displayed!"

2) This project/proposal demonstrates, once again, the massive disconnect between the public's perception of "art" versus that of history and preservation. The fact that such a "wacky" proposal gets somewhat serious reporting at the NY Times website, but a series of steam excursions out of Hoboken or Harmon wouldn't, is testament to the superior marketing efforts of the art community. (Carry on your critiques of intellectuals, art patrons, the rich, academics, the "1%", etc. on other forums, please. There are plenty of other online places eager to let you do so.)

3) This is a private proposal, mostly unsupported by tax dollars, with most of the funding proposed to come from private foundations. How is that any different from the Age of Steam roundhouse in Ohio?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Bobharbison wrote:

By the way, most of us could learn something about PR from this artist. When's the last time your project got this kind of coverage?

There are probably plenty out there that would insist that this speaks much more about the gullibility, sensationalism, and "wannabe intellectualism" of the media in question than the viability or PR work of this artist and the proposal.

And, yeah, that's something we have to learn how to exploit to maximum effort/value.

Ed Kelley · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:16 pm

This thing is getting big buzz in Gotham today. As an "artist" and somewhat biased party who lives within walking distance to the High Line, I think we can do better. Sure, it looks pretty sweet, but are there not more affordable and historically accurate alternatives—authentic or replicated—as Kelly and others have mentioned? Even relocating the ex-NYC ALCo in Riverside Park, stashed somewhat clandestinely under the West Side Highway viaduct a few years back, would be a step up IMHO. Finding space to coexist with the walking path isn't a problem; with show rails and gardens running the length of the High Line anyhow, the whole hanging thing seems like an artistic statement above anything else.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

Ed, you're right, there are better and more economical options.

But you're looking at it from a preservationist's point of view. The problem is that this is art. The value here isn't in the materials, it's in the artist, his reputation and his vision for the artwork.

The Mona Lisa is on what, maybe $100 worth of wood and canvas?

People pay hundreds to hear an artist sing, and go home with nothing at all.

While related, art is a different field and it plays by totally different rules.

Quote:

the whole hanging thing seems like an artistic statement above anything else.

Exactly! They never claimed otherwise. The only reason it affects railway preservation is that as ADM mentioned, it will get lumped in with what we do. It also provides some interesting insight on publicity and fund raising.

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:51 pm

I was going to weigh in on this, but on second thought, I'm just a knuckle dragging mouth breather from flyover country with no understanding of "art".
My mind keeps picturing an eyesore in downtown St. Louis called the Serra Sculpture which was foisted upon the taxpayers here and is 4 walls made with rusting steel sheets. Somebody paid through the wazoo for this ugly POC but it has a purpose. The homeless downtown use it for a urinal and amorous couples have snuck in there at lunchtime for some heavy breathing. I don't know how they tolerate the stench.
I don't like Christo's work either.
I'm sure the NEA and some unnamed people will bankroll this and it will be the talk of the town for 6 months. If it's hung high enough, the vandals will take longer to tag it with their spray cans.
There, I've showed my classlessness to the world and will go back into my double wide or whatever we're supposed to live in out here in MO.
Our preservation industry needs creative PR work and the ability to lure easy marks away from the art world with their money.

nathansixchime · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm **Posts:** 948

Bobharbison wrote:

Quote:

the whole hanging thing seems like an artistic statement above anything else.

Exactly! They never claimed otherwise. The only reason it affects railway preservation is that as ADM mentioned, it will get lumped in with what we do. It also provides some interesting insight on publicity and fund raising.

Bob, who is doing the lumping? If someone cries "train" in a forest, does a preservationist hear it? That's what we're doing and as BEDT14 illustrates, it's something that hits close to heart and home, for some more than others.

It's important to rail preservation because it elevates railroading into the public sphere and we need that type of collateral and relevancy.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

2) This project/proposal demonstrates, once again, the massive disconnect between the public's perception of "art" versus that of history and preservation. The fact that such a "wacky" proposal gets somewhat serious reporting at the NY Times website, but a series of steam excursions out of Hoboken or Harmon wouldn't, is testament to the superior marketing efforts of the art community.

This illustrates my point. "A train trip" out of Hoboken or Harmon happens 100 times a day, who cares, what makes it special? We seem to continue to decry the public's disconnect when we ourselves don't know how to appeal to them. You decry "sensationalism," but what do you offer in its place? There persists this "preservation labcoat" approach that hopes people will magically want to visit our dusty books and pictures.

There is no one saying the work is preservation (the article even says it would be a replica), but it is a type of preservation, just like the High Line is a type of preservation, and a crazy one at that. I know people who would balk at that price of the High Line ("$100 Million for a trail!") just as they would balk over art.

This isn't about what either is as a standalone project, either. The massive redevelopment that has taken place since The High Line has sprung up showcases that it's not about the tunnel vision of one singular project (i.e. "saving the boxcar, steam engine, station") but about making the project a part of something bigger (i.e. an experience, attraction, development, trail, artwork...)

This is what we continually fail to do -- break down the wall between railroad preservation/real world relevancy. It's not about nifty PR tricks or stunts.

Kelly Lynch

bedt14 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:56 pm

Quote:

Sarcastic little bugger aren't you?

Yes - (but only with stubborn, ignorant people who don't like criticism, others opinions or people who disagree with them and feel the need to belittle other peoples ideas and suggestions).

And the sarcasm must have worked to some degree, because you commented on it. ;o)

Have a great day!

co614 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:05 pm

I've contacted these folks and told them I've got 4 perfect 4-8-4 steam locomotives ready to go for their exhibit.

At $ 20 million each they can choose between one of two non-steamable candidates.

For a bargain $ 24 million each they can choose between two steamable candidates.

I'll let you know what they say!!

With visions of riches dancing in his head...........................

Ross Rowland

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

Ross, keep in mind it's only a temporary installation. Given that, I'd suggest charging them $15 Mill and $20 mill respectively, that way they have a bit left over for crane rental and the artist's commision. Then when they're done, just ship the loco over to Age of Steam or Strasburg and say "Make her like new, boys!"

To bad he can't hang it horizontally, I'm picturing 614 going 50 mph suspended in mid air. Now THAT would definitely get some attention. ;)

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:02 pm

My main impression:

"We [railway preservationists] don't get no respect, no respect at all!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLGxWPtgodo

bedt14 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:46 pm

In response to Ed Kelley's post:

Quote:

Even relocating the ex-NYC ALCo in Riverside Park...

Unfortunately, that ALCo isn't even ex-New York Central:

And this should point out precisely why historical accuracy is needed...

locomotive builder: American Locomotive Co - Schenectady Shops, NY
construction number: 74962
build date: October 1946

- new - 1959: Erie #307
- 1959 - 1968: Erie Lackawanna #307
- 1968 - 8/17/83: Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal
- 8/1983: Became NYCH #25
- ca. 2000: retired & stored
- 2006: saved for preservation & painted to "New York Central #8625" livery. Currently on display in Riverside Park

http://www.trainweb.org/bedt/bedt/BEDT25.html

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:29 pm

"Ross, keep in mind it's only a temporary installation. Given that, I'd suggest charging them $15 Mill and $20 mill respectively, that way they have a bit left over for crane rental and the artist's commision. Then when they're done, just ship the loco over to Age of Steam or Strasburg and say 'Make her like new, boys!'"--Bob Harbison

For $15 or $20 million, you probably could do all four engines, and have change left over for at least one luxury train set for them to pull.

Now, to find a place to run that stuff. . .

"To bad he can't hang it horizontally, I'm picturing 614 going 50 mph suspended in mid air. Now THAT would definitely get some attention. ;)"--Ibid

Well now, you could--just get two cranes. Easy, really. . .

Now, paying for the extra crane. . .

Dave · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:49 pm

Leaving aside the art thing, because there's nothing mysterious about art just about other's perceptions, much like the rest of life.........but about the money, which may be mysterious in why it flows in certain ways but is not as incomprehensible as perception:

No, don't blow the money (assuming you succeed) restoring another mainline steamer until you have a mainline to run on. It will do fine being set aside for that eventuality if and when it arises, but not until then, please.

Maybe a lunch with Warren Buffet would be in order.

dave