Wow, I am unimpressed with the nitpicking by the vocal minority of the colors used! I openly thank NS for even thinking about its heritage and I am totally impressed that they put there money where the mouths are and painted these units with their rendition of the roads that make up their heritage.

Thank you NS!

Mike Tillger

Steve,

From a mutual friend, Penn Central never had DGLE.



Scott

I bow to our mutual friend, who is meticulous in his research. Last time I painted a car Tuscan, I got my paint code from him.

However, I was not the one actually advocating that PC painted their locomotives green, I was the one advocating for the correct name of the paint (at least during the PRR era). If you google "Brunswick Green" and click on "image", you will find that everywhere else on earth (except in this little world of American railway preservation) Brunswick Green is much lighter than a gallon of black with the word "green" whispered over it!

Steve

Edit: upon further review, that bulletin came out of Collinwood, not Altoona. What would a Green Team engineer know about the correct shade of green? ;)

SZ

Don't quote me on this, but I have always been told that Brunswick Green was 9 parts black and 1 part green.

So, PC engines were never actually black? They were actually Brunswick? Wow..

Proving, once again, White's Law:

SCHOLARSHIP IS INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO IMPORTANCE.

I do believe I have to go pull up that 1991 study from the U.K. researcher tying together railway-enthusiasm and "trainspotting" with Asperger's Syndrome........

Hmm. Are any of those color codes still good? It is blissfully easy to get formulas today from a sample. But If nobody kept samples then good luck. In any case, in most paint systems, near blacks are out of gamut because it would take more pigment than would physically fit in the can. AwlGrip does, in fact 10% of their stock colors are so dark you have to step outside to see they're not black. Matters to yachtsmen.

Has anyone had any luck with old paint codes in the last ten years?

Thank you, Scott.

This thread has gone from inane to enlightening.

PC units were green... and they actually called it Brunswick Green... I love this stuff!

Rob

After 90+ comments and 4,500+ views!

The specification lists a base and a finish. So did a fresh paint job start with the primer, followed by the base and then the finish?

Thanks,

Bob Bunge

And with each anecdotal telling, the proportions shift. The legend/joke I heard was one part green, 100 parts black. By now, I believe we're up to similar dilution proportions to those found in "homeopathic" quackery.

It begins to remind me of the trolley historian that told me that where he lived, he had to repeatedly beat the concept of "rare" into waitresses/cooks in an area where the norms for steaks/etc. were well, very well, and burnt: "Ma'am--hold a match in front of the cow's nose, and lead him through a tepid room. Then serve it to me!"

I bet they are not using primer #25-091 made by National Lead Company anymore.

This is how it must feel to be in a high stakes poker game, secretly holding a Royal flush. Well trumped, Scott!

Im not so sure about the PC Brunswick green thing..
I cant say I know absolutely one way or the other, but I do know something about color..(I was a Kodak research technician for 17 years..Color was my job..)

PC Railfan was a hobby/railfan magazine, not an official PC publication:
http://pc.railfan.net/list/2004-10/msg00025.html
So that inst really absolute proof that *all* PC locos were Brunswick Green..
There is some anecdotal evidence that the *very first* loco painted for PC *might* have been Brunswick Green, but this hasn't been proven..based on that theory, its also possible that PC *intended* to paint all their locos in Brunswick Green, but only did one (or none) and then switched to plain black because it was more cost effective..that intention could have been recorded in official documents, (and it would account for the painting diagram) which all could have led to the myth that "PC locos were in fact Brunswick Green" when perhaps they weren't..they were only *planned* be Brunswick Green, for a short time..but it never actually happened in reality.

some discussion: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 95&t=87366

There is however a ton of excellent evidence that shows PC locos were *not* painted in Brunswick Green, and were instead painted black..and that evidence is..every photograph ever taken of a PC locomotive! ;) You can actually tell, visually, Brunswick Green from pure black..you can see the slight greenish tinge..example on a modern restoration:

http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=933742

The green is very subtle, but its there..
in this photo:
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... id=1668306
notice the color difference between the carbody and the trucks..you can see the green in the side of the loco, but not on the trucks..the trucks are black.

here is a restored GG1 in green:
http://vratrips.org/blog/wp-content/upl ... 4877-1.jpg

(yes, I understand restorations arent the final word! because they can easily be wrong and not quite historically accurate..) so here are a few actual PRR paint jobs:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r293 ... A/RRC3.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 14&nseq=21

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 6&nseq=234

The greens arent exactly the same in those photos, but that is due to differences in photo color reproduction..the overall color balance of the photos isnt exactly the same.
but the point is, you can clearly see the green tint..those are clearly PRR Brunswick Green locomotives..

That green tint has *never* been seen on a PC locomotive! ;)
ever..
IMO, they were obviously all black..IMO the photographic record proves it.

fresh(ish) paint:

http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/70615049

http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/38993221

http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/38994643

http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/38993062


Scot

I can't argue with Scottychaos and his research. We know as a certainty, Penn Central varied the color of the "two worms in love", and my memory tells me the announcement of the new PC color scheme at the time of merger was black and white, in an effort to eradicate all traces of a once rival system. Penn Central boxcar green was of course, very distinct and bright.
Bring it before the Supreme Court?
I'm betting on black and white.

This is one of the funniest things I’ve read on this forum in a really long time.
It blows me away that so many people (both here and in person, from a few conversations I’ve had with friends who live in NS territory) are saying, “NS, you stink, the typeface is ¼ inch smaller than it should be or the paint shade is a tad off in my photo,” when in fact they should assume a prayer position and say instead, “THANK you, NS, for painting these locomotives in these great heritage paint jobs to honor the fallen flag road names!” I went so far as to point out to one PRR fan I know that as these are MODERN locomotives that the previous road names never had back in the day and that typeface, logo or paint differences don’t mean a thing. After a few minutes, he still didn’t get it and probably doesn’t even now.
It reminds me of a post Ross Rowland made here a while back where someone was yelling at him when a locomotive he was operating apparently had the wrong typeface for the numbers (either one the cab of the headlight, I can’t remember which).