Hi everyone-

Now that April Fools day is thankfully over, we at the fledgling SE Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum seek some input.

Just to bring you up to speed, we are in the middle of a fundraising campaign with a target of $750k, and we have raised just over half that in cash and pledges... not too shabby in this economy and after 8 months of earnest work in that regard.

Our facility will not have rides, but we do have a restored depot with a nice model railroad and artifacts/memorabilia that relate to the local railroading history that included narrow, broad, standard, and logging aspects.

The original site plan is at http://www.newtondepot.com. Click on the "Museum Plan" button and the elevation drawings and site schematic are available for viewing. Pay particular attention to the elevation drawings (the crux of this post)...

Now, originally, our budget for the entire campus was about $450K, with the additional $300k being an endowment, allowances, kiosks, park equipment, moving expenses etc. This budget was based off of estimates and quotes that came about around 2-3 years ago, and very honest, every effort was made make this as first class as could be. We do have some board members who, shall we say, are very affluent, very well connected to both political parties, have a history of local philanthropy, and are at such an age that this may very well be their last significant "hurrah".

Now, the problem...

Our new estimates arrived, and frankly, have blown us out of the water. Our carbarn (L-shaped), with the skinny part being 40 x 120 and another 25 x 60 feet making the fat part came in 50% higher than expected. This included the building with its gabled roof; $36,000 in concrete sidewalks; $30k in five foot steel "spiked" fencing; $12k in lighting; etc.

Here is the architect rendering of what we originally wanted:





Now, honestly, I am not for building the Taj Mahal here. I think/hope people will come to see the equipment, NOT the building, and would like to approach it from the other end. A similar building to this style:






This style of building can be built for closer to $100,000, sacrificing lighting, fencing, and concrete sidewalks. However, even not sacrificing these things, the cost is STILL considerably less than what was originally designed. Unfortunately, there is some resistance on the board in going with this scaled back version because it is not "classy" enough (too strong a word, but you know what I mean).

Sooo, bottom line, how would YOU dress up the very basic shed shown in the bottom two photos and make it more appealing and secure, without breaking the bank?

For starters, I would paint all steel beams black, except those at the ceiling (white), put up a 4' black chain link fence, brick up the steel beams about 5' high, and put in bird netting and SOME lighting. For walkways, I would use pea gravel and flagstone with a "brick paver" campaign that would always be ongoing...

What would you do (to the building, please no advice on inter-board tastes and politics)?

Thanks

Matt Bumgarner

Matt,

Our new buildings were constructed using steel systems buildings (like Butler and Corle) and then enhanced with brick facades and trimwork to get the architectural atmosphere we were seeking. Viewed from the back, they are quite plain. We also were able to do some of the interior electrical work at more favorable pricing after the general contractor was off the scene.

My sense is that you can probably find a middle ground between the original design and the "car port" shown below it.

Wesley

Matt:

A couple of thoughts:

1. Typically the "roof" metal can be had in any color. You might want to get it in green to tie in to the original scheme.

2. In addition, you might have the cover designed so that the roof metal comes down the posts partway - even 3 - 5 feet would make a difference. This would create a "mansard"-type appearance that might be a little less industrial looking.

3. I also like the idea of the black posts and black chain link.

Good luck with your project.

Scott

You do not mention where the original quote came from. Did the architect formulate the cost estimate? Was it an actual proposal? Have you had this conversation with the architect?

Also, the economy is picking up. Prices are going up. Homebuilders in our town are starting to advertise again. Those discount prices from 2008 are gone.

Steven-

Yes- it was the same architect/builder. Essentially, he says the same thing, costs are up. We had anticipated as much as 20%, but certainly not 50%.

Doesn't matter... the current reality is that is NOT what was budgeted for and we need to be flexible in what we come up with, thus the purpose of my request: how would YOU dress up this basic design?

Matt

Matt,



I think you have outlined a good compromise here. And if things get tight you could install electric service and add lighting later. Or install simple fixtures (equivalent of bare bulbs) and upgrade the fixtures at a later date.

Wesley

Maybe eliminate the third track under cover and put the V-C #50 outside. Not ideal, but at least the locomotive has a better chance at being weather resistant than the wooden cars.

Once painted with a nice enamel, I think a prefab structure like that will look just fine.

You could also shop around to see what other off-the-shelf designs are available in your budget. Below is a simple shelter I noticed today:

A different form of "off the shelf" proposal:

I'm not sure just how or where, but industrial "building kits" like this come around used now and then. A locomotive group in the UK went looking and budgeting for a 40' x 100' building for a loco shed, and ended up taking possession of a 120' x 200' building in kit form for the price of disassembly and storage--the building was given to them as surplus by the National Coal Board, and the NCB had a member who arranged the donation.

It's not out of the question that you could find the right sized shed for far cheaper, then modify it to essentially your vision. Maybe not as easy, and a bit of work, but possibly far cheaper, depending on what turns up in your searches.

With some steel studs, chicken wire, and stucco you can box the columns in and make them look much better for very little money. Maybe even three feet of brick at the bottom. Paint the under side of the roof flat black. It will disappear so it does not matter what it looks like. Black chain link fencing will look very good. Do not under estimate the problem of birds in an open building. I have no good answer for that problem.

You should consider staying with the concrete walkways between the cars. Anything else and there will be tripping hazards and ADA issues. You do not need a full floor, just pave where you want your visitors to walk.

The best time to raise money is during construction. Bang the drum really hard. Have a list of features that are not funded and you want to include in the project. After the building is complete, money will dry up and it is time to move fund raising on the the next big thing.

I like the idea of stucco on the columns...

Why would you paint the ceiling flat black? I would think you would want it white as to reflect more light to allow for better photography.

Now, the gravel pathways do concern me. One way to reduce the cost is asphalt rather than concrete.

IS a gravel walkway really an issue? I look at places like NJMT, Whippany, New Hope Valley, and there's no concrete walkways anywhere, not even along the track for boarding, so I really have to wonder how much of an "ADA" issue this really is. Granted, some sort of hard surface is very nice (thinking Spencer, VMT), but would pea gravel and flagstone, bordered with a monkey grass of some sort, but just as useful?

Matt

It is difficult to come up with a decent response to your question without know a lot more about the goals of this project. The need for cost effective display shelters for RR equipment is a kind of perennial question here, and I have to say that I have yet to see one that I really like. I think the leaders of the organization are right to not want to cheap out on something that will look bad. An investment like this is supposed to last a long time, and it makes sense to get as much quality into it as possible.

Individual suggestions like, "clad the columns in stucco," or "paint the ceiling black," do not really help when what you need is an affordable design with a consistent architectural vision that complements its displays. I would say the best solution would arise from open communication and collaboration between the project stakeholders and a talented architect. Tough decisions will need to be made about what is really important, and what is worth spending money on.

Personally, I think an attractive shelter could be produced using off-the-shelf pre-engineered steel building components, but you will not get there without the involvement of a talented architect who is sympathetic to the idea. There is a tendency amongst some to believe that a few decorative elements here and there will make up for larger design deficiencies. I believe they fail. Furthermore, attempting to thematicize a pre-engineered building to look "railroady" is the architectural equivalent of Thomas the Tank Engine™ (no offense intended to the very useful engine). It mis-represents the larger historical narrative you are trying to present, replacing it with an image that is at best "cute."

A better and more economical solution might be a structure that eschews historical reference in favor of a functionalist approach that is focused on providing shelter and allowing viewing in a way that is elegant and direct.

Randy
(an architect)

Randy-

Are you an available, sympathetic architect?

The goal of the fund-raising project is to create and endow the Southeastern Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum. This includes land, buildings to create the museum and protection of equipment, etc. Full information is at www.newtondepot.com

The goal of what my thread is asking is to come up with a cost effective car barn that a) protects the equipment from the elements; b) assists in securing the equipment from vandals; c) does this in an attractive way without breaking the bank.

Matt

At risk of getting into "Board-y" stuff, I think you need to have your board call out every characteristic you want this facility to have -- then have a consensus process where you rank them. Then you have an officially blessed sheet of paper that you can hold up to compare against whatever you do. You don't care about the exact roof pitch but you do care about "doesn't look cheap". They should be ranked accordingly.

If you don't establish this agenda, then a different agenda >>WILL<< assert itself if you hire a prime contractor. He will insist on a contract which calls out many, many details and leaves little to argue with - but he will never agree to intangibles like "doesn't look cheap". You also lose control of common-sense things like "don't use Chinese drywall" or "We already have 500 feet of conduit in our boxcar, don't buy new conduit." You are ultimately responsible for the beginning to the end of the job, and you cannot buy your way out of that.

There are two ways to get a great site. Caviar: specify EXACTLY what you want, right down to the roof pitch, and throw money at the problem, have everything custom made just for you. Peanut butter: Understand what you really want, then aggressively search for a long time for the cheapest way to get it. Getting a used building would be a great example. This is a lot more work but you will get closer to what you want, and do it for a song.

Yes, having a sympathetic in-house architect (or equivalent skill) will help a lot. WRM's shop is a used building, and WRM's Visitor Center was architected and prime contracted in-house by volunteers; it is the last building in the county to be permitted for iron pipe because somebody "scored" that stuff cheap.

I suppose the costs really do go up when you have to hire a general contractor instead of doing a large amount of the work yourself. When we put up our 40' x 60' steel building with overhead crane, I did all the work from excavation, forming and pouring concrete to erecting the iron and sheeting the building. There were no overcharges and sub standard craftsmanship since we were in full control. The only things contracted out were those aspects that we could not legally do ourselves.

I could never hire a general contractor since I could not give so much control over to someone whose allegiance is to profit and not the project. But most people don't know enough about construction work to adequately fill that role.

I'm so lucky that my dad had me out helping to pour mobile home pads when I was young, and I learned concrete work. The only way I would spend $36,000 for concrete is if I was pouring 300 cubic yards of the stuff.

There are cheaper and easier ways of doing some of the work you need done. You just have to figure out how.