Hello,
New here. I am a live steam guy for many years I have been trying to get drawings for Southern Ms class Mikado. To no avail, I have checked DeGroyler wrote the museum in Chattanooga etc.
I was wondering what y,all have in the way of drawings(scribbles too)? I would gladly pay any costs, make a donation,spend my summer vacation helping out in your back shop(I am a machinist). Please let me know what we can do. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!
Thanks,
Scott K

You could broaden your search efforts by looking for USRA Light Mikados. I don't know if they are still available but I know Model Railroader Magazine had some very well done drawings.

But that would be a Southern Ms-1, not an Ms, which are quite different dimensionally.

Thanks W.L. like SR6900 said different machine,It is a Ms class that I am looking for.
Maybe one of the 4501 guys will chime in???????

Scott,

You should sign up and post your question on www.chaski.com There are many modelers that have good answers.

JD Johnson, Morehad and North Fork Railroad Historian

Hi J.D,
I am a chaski member. No luck there either as far as Ms class drawings go.
I figured somebody here works on 4501 or knows someone who does.
Thanks,
Scott K

Well, it's not much, but maybe it can get you to a start:

First up is a rendition from, of all things, a give-away bookmark from Kalmbach that was issued in the 1970s. I believe the drawing is by the late George Groff, who was one of the draftsmen who did model builders' drawings for Model Railroader. As such, proportions should be right; you can use known dimensions like driver diameter and tender truck wheelbases to scale the drawing, and it seems to "blow up" nicely on the monitor, too, with minimal loss of detail:

http://chryslercrazy.com/RMS/4501sm.jpg

From an earlier thread here, there are two diagrams of Ms 2-8-2s with "tractor" tenders; the dimensions of wheelbases, elevation of boiler centers, and so on are what's valuable there:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31374

Although the Ms 2-8-2 isn't here, you may find other things of interest:

http://www.southernmodeler.info/Hundman.htm

http://southernmodeler.info/

Hope this helps get things going.

This is a close as I can get. It is a plan for a "Tractor", but gives the basics for a 4500 series loco. Good luck!

HI Scott

Have you tired Railroad Supply Corp , back in the 1980's when Chet Peterson was running Railroad Supply Corp, they did have a USRA Mike in the works in 1/1/2" scale in either 7/1/4" or 7/1/2" track gauge .

Don Marshall of Woodstock Locomotive works , in New Hampshire did turn out a Southern MS 2-8-2 as # 4501 in record time . This engine was shown at LIVE STEAM railroad clubs in the Northeast in the 80's .

I would suggest that you try Railroad Supply Corp , and bring up the name Don Marshall and Woodstock Locomotive Works , back in the 80's and maybe you mite find your answer ?

Because in order for Don Marshall to build one engine , he had to have plans from Railroad Supply .

The RRSC Mike is a USRA Heavy. 4501 and the Ms class predate the USRA designs. They are actually a little smaller than a USRA Light Mike. Scott, maybe you need to arrange a roadtrip to Chattanooga and start measuring and making sketches? Tom Nicholson built a very nice model of 4501 out west in 1.5" scale. I believe the model is somewhere in the east now. The drawings should turn up eventually.

ALCO, everything is gone*.

LIMA, most all of it is still with us.

USRA, drawings are still around, as one previous replier noted.

Baldwin, all built after 1938 is still available. *Pre-1938 there exists mostly only erecting cards and a few individual parts drawings.

*The exception to that rule are the full sets (from all builders) that were kept by the RRs that had purchased a blueprint set with their new locomotive and kept the set. Some of those sets are with historical societies like; UPHS, Sante Fe Historical society, etc...

Were their any duplicates of your chosen locomotive that were owned by UP, SF or other RR that has an archive that is known about that might still have the drawings available for purchase?

Hi,
Thanks for everybodys input. I have all the the Southern Ms data that has been posted here.
Kalmbachs book Locomotive 4501 has the Baldwin elavation drawings for the Ms class Mike they did not publish the cross sections though.......so it leaves quite a bit up to conjecture. Truth is someone has a copy of these drawings somewhere,and that is all I want ,just a copy.
Would like to stress that 4501 or any of the Ms class are not U.S.R.A. engines or copies.
Should have mentioned that my project is 3/4" scale.
Yes a trip to Chattanooga is in the works.....just wondering how much real access I can get to the engine. As far as I know she is being overhauled and I can't even get Tennessee Valley to respond to my inquiries.

Scott K

Scott,

I was a friend of Bill Purdie's in his later years. Bill collected any prints he could on his travels. Upon his death, Donald donated them to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth (Atlanta), GA.

I am kind of the defacto "curator" of the collection. They are 95% un-cataloged. We loaned several to TVRM for their work on 4501. I will have to dig up the list. We may have more. I do not believe we have an erection drawing for any Ms.

Unfortunately I just do not have time to get through them. The prints run more towards the old Norfolk Southern and very early Southern steam locomotives. (Want to build a NS berkshire? I think we must have every print).

So, if you want a summer vacation project, I could get you involved with cataloging Bill Purdie's collection. :>)

Dale Grice

At present 4501 is completely dismantled and the area around the project is hazardous because of much rebuilding activity. The area is not open to the general public and the drawings referenced are being used by machinists and other fabricators. There is no access for measuring anything and most parts are spread out in various parts of the shops and outbuildings awaiting refurbishment. Some things are being changed on the engine, so whatever you want to measure might be changed tomorrow, for example the "new" stoker system. Once the engine is completed, you'll have a better chance of gaining access to drawings, though I suspect what we have is not complete by any means.

Hello,
Tim and Dale I will send you each a p.m. this evening.
Thanks,
Scott K