ATSF 4-6-4 #3463

mikefrommontana · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Dave wrote:

A strategy has already been worked out for high speed and normal track speed operation including a period of test operation with the inclusion of recording instruments to accurately measure the operating characteristics of the locomotive. This not only quantifies the characteristics of the new fuel, but provides a basis for comparison with the historic data gathered by the Santa Fe decades ago in testing.
dave

Thus explaining the choice of this engine, versus others. If there is already a set of test data for this class of engine, that provides a baseline. The AT&SF could probably be considered one of the more advanced operators of steam in the West.

Why not a Northern? I would suspect wheel loadings and tracking ability might figure in, in addition to the existence of excess boiler capacity and the opportunity to increase steam utilization without hitting the wall of what the boiler can generate.

I could be an interesting technology if wedded to the design of the 4-6-4T's that ran on the CP (?) and CNJ. Green commuter power indeed. I wonder if the pellet manufacturing process could be adapted to use kudzu?

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Ron Travis · **Joined:** Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm **Posts:** 1543

jasonsobczynski wrote:

Ron Travis,

Green technologies are a passion of mine, the point John made is accurat. While the wood has a minimal foot print (though not neutral as it does have to be harvested and processed) the other component of the fuel is coal. Last I checked coal is a fossil fuel. Thus this is an environmentally "green" bio fuel using a renewable resource as well as fossil fuel.

Cheers, Jason

Actually, I am not sure what John was referring to now that I review what I quoted from him. I had made the point that wood burning was considered carbon neutral. And I assumed he was responding to what I had said, and was arguing that it can’t be carbon neutral. But now I see that he was referring to fossil fuel and not wood. So I should not have quoted him when I reiterated that wood burning is carbon neutral. And I think that the point I made agrees with what you are saying about it.

Dave · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 8:02 pm

[quote="mikefrommontana I wonder if the pellet manufacturing process could be adapted to use kudzu?
Michael Seitz
Missoula MT[/quote]

No need for pellets, Mike. Just plant kudzu in an open gon behind the tender (or leave it trackside in Georgia overnight and let it plant itself), and train the vines to grow through the firedoor. Self-stoking carbon neutral biofuel.

Has it made it to Montana yet?

dave

jasonsobczynski · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 8:43 pm

Ron,

Absolutely, your point about the wood component is accurate.

Cheers, Jason

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 9:24 pm

The original "green" locomotive:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 65&nseq=12

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 63&nseq=15

Sorry, sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation. . .:-)

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 9:39 pm

Frisco1522 wrote:

I'll start putting more attention into green stuff when I see solar powered passenger airplanes flying.

I couldn't resist this link

http://news.yahoo.com/video/environment-15749659/sun-powered-plane-attempts-intercontinental-flight-29449568.html

Renewables will not do everything, but they are a valid and significant source. Germany is obtaining 10% of their electric from wind today (checked my source).

But I think the renewable future is in fiberglass, aluminum, and electronics, not cast steel frames and superheaters.

Erik Ledbetter · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 11:54 pm

Frisco1522 wrote:

I wonder what the greenies would think if we turned back the clock to about 1939 and checked the air quality? St. Louis was so bad that the street lights were on during the day because of the smog and coal smoke. Nearly everything burned coal back then for heat, power, railroads, industry and the automobiles were smoke generators.

This greenie thinks you just deliberately confused local air quality with global greenhouse gas emissions and their cumulative impact. Apples and oranges.

Erik Ledbetter · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 11:59 pm

MSNBC picked it up:

http://m.futureoftech.msnbc.msn.com/technology/futureoftech/classic-1937-steam-engine-soon-run-carbon-free-793578

Matt3985 · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 12:04 am

From this qoute from that MSNBC topic

"The biocoal will be used to power a 1937 steam locomotive that is being upgraded with a more efficient fire box, boiler and other parts — though using the same design principles as a traditional steam locomotive."

That makes me feel much better to see that at least they are going to run this engine like every other steam engine operates, just faster

filmteknik · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 12:08 am

I feel like we should be starting an office pool on this.

Steve

Pegasuspinto · **Joined:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am **Posts:** 783

J3a-614 wrote:

The original "green" locomotive:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 65&nseq=12

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 63&nseq=15

Sorry, sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation. . .:-)

Noo, Noo, THIS is the original 'green' locomotive!!

http://www.pbase.com/spcrr/image/93303829

Matt3985 · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 12:18 am

Or the first iron horse thats not iron

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3013

Matt3985 wrote:

From this qoute from that MSNBC topic

"The biocoal will be used to power a 1937 steam locomotive that is being upgraded with a more efficient fire box, boiler and other parts — though using the same design principles as a traditional steam locomotive."

That makes me feel much better to see that at least they are going to run this engine like every other steam engine operates, just faster

Uh, "using the same design principles" could simply mean "we burn fuel to create steam in the boiler and that powers the locomotive"

mldeets · **Joined:** Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am **Posts:** 411

Matt3985 wrote:

From this qoute from that MSNBC topic ...

"...clip..."

That makes me feel much better to see that at least they are going to run this engine like every other steam engine operates, just faster

Matt,
Please don't confuse what you hear from a newscaster with facts. Been in the 'biz 36 years and counting. mld

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 12:41 am

"Noo, Noo, THIS is the original 'green' locomotive!!"

http://www.pbase.com/spcrr/image/93303829

Oh, my, oh, my, what to we want to call it, a "biomotive?"

Actually, how about Jake, or Harry, or whatever name you have for such a pet?

I tell my wife she's an expensive pet. . .just like all the cats I've got around here. . .which she let in because she wouldn't listen. . ."Don't feed that cat, if you feed that cat, you'll never get rid of it". . .she took a vow to "love, honor, and obey". . .she needs to work on the obedience part. . .too late to trade her in, we've been married over 30 years. . .

How is it that rail enthusiasts have what must be the corniest sense of humor?