I would like to know IF anyone has heard about a POSSIBLE MOVE of CPR# 2816 over the D&H to Steamtown ,???????????? OR IS THIS JUST ANOTHER RUNOR/????????????? thank you Pat...

cprh1b@attbi.com

That's been rumored since ever since it left PA. The only real problem with doing so (since its CPs engine and CPs track) is that the engine is not to USA FRA codes. Last I knew, that work has not been performed. Once that problem is solved, sky's the limit I guess you could say.

Joshua

joshuakblay@hotmail.com

> That's been rumored since ever since it left
> PA. The only real problem with doing so
> (since its CPs engine and CPs track) is that
> the engine is not to USA FRA codes. Last I
> knew, that work has not been performed. Once
> that problem is solved, sky's the limit I
> guess you could say.

I thought the engine was given a complete rebuild (over three years) at North Vancouver and the boiler rebuild was by McCorrmick in Portland, Oregon. Are your comments about the engine before it went to the CP? Or about it after the rebuild?

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> I thought the engine was given a complete
> rebuild (over three years) at North
> Vancouver and the boiler rebuild was by
> McCorrmick in Portland, Oregon. Are your
> comments about the engine before it went to
> the CP? Or about it after the rebuild?

2816 can NOT operate in the United States at this time because it does not meet FRA standards. For example, if I recall correctly when I was in the cab last year, the boiler does not have a second water glass which is now a must in the States.

This is confirmed on the CPR web site at the link below. Scroll down to the third paragraph under "CPR Empress".

Rob

http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/About+Us/In+Your+Community/Community+Connect/Programs/default.htm

> 2816 can NOT operate in the United States at
> this time because it does not meet FRA
> standards. For example, if I recall
> correctly when I was in the cab last year,
> the boiler does not have a second water
> glass which is now a must in the States.

> This is confirmed on the CPR web site at the
> link below. Scroll down to the third
> paragraph under "CPR Empress".

> Rob

In a conversation some time ago with Jonathon Hanna, Canadian Pacific's corporate historian, the subject of bringing 2816 to the states was brought up.

Jonathan didn't go into detail, but did say that 2816 would need some "minor changes" (his words)to bring it up to FRA specs. Likely the water glasses. The cab glass should already be legal if it meets CTC regs.

It should be noted that when the water car (and tender I would imagine) was rebuilt, it was given two seperate water hose connections. One with Canadian threads. One with US threads.

While I would like to see 2816 run in the States, and I think it will one day, I would rather see CP allow the 261 to run on home rails occasionally.

Todd Jones
engineer
Canadian Pacific Railway
IRM Diesel


milw104c@charter.net

Anyone have a contact person at CPR regarding 2816 I could write to. We may have some footage coming our way, and need to ask them a couple of legal questions. I tried the Media Department and got no response.
Thanks,
Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

I'm assuming, then, that 2816 had all of the calculations done that are necessary for the form 4, but is simply missing the minor details like the water glass. Did they go ahead and file with the FRA so as to stay straight on things like service days, flue time, ect.? Boring details I know, but I'm curious.

Southeastern Railway Museum
gapower97@yahoo.com

Pat,

The popular rumor is that the Empress may make a D&H tour to coincide with the Baltimore fest next summer. Makes sense.

Rob


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

Gee, if this were to come to pass, maybe we could get a road trip together and pack a bus load from Atlanta, Chattanooga and Spencer and see this Canadian brute, eh?

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

> That's been rumored since ever since it left
> PA. The only real problem with doing so
> (since its CPs engine and CPs track) is that
> the engine is not to USA FRA codes. Last I
> knew, that work has not been performed. Once
> that problem is solved, sky's the limit I
> guess you could say.

> Joshua

All of the Part 230 work was performed at the time of rebuild. As this engine is home based in Canada, it was not considered necessary to file the paperwork with FRA until it was certain that the engine would run in the US. The Canadians could have easily adopted the same verbiage as FRA uses in 230 to cover their steam locomorives, but, as is usual, they made a few changes, which only complicate matters for an engine that might run on both sides of the border.

For example, the FRA did not apply glazing standards to steam engines, reasoning that the windows are open most of the time anyway. FRA did not require event recorders or alertors or ditch lights. The Canadians did require these things, which meant that someone had to design and build an event recorder suitable for steam
locomotives.

The locomotive is arranged now for easy application of the second water glass and the application of tender water level indicator. To run it int he US, they's have to install those (it would take a couple of guys a day or so to do the work, and they may install the second glass anyway, because it makes sense to do so), file the necessary paperwork with FRA, and that's about it.

> FRA did not require event recorders
> or alertors or ditch lights. The Canadians
> did require these things, which meant that
> someone had to design and build an event
> recorder suitable for steam locomotives.

Not true. Reading 2100 had one installed more than three years ago.

> Not true. Reading 2100 had one installed
> more than three years ago.

Since there is no such thing as an "off the shelf" steam locomotive event recorder......
The CPR mechanical department adapted one of "their" stock diesel recorders so information download and interpretation would be routine. And it is a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

Count me in Jim. I need to do a field inspection anyway to see how those journal bearings on the driving wheels are doing. It'd give me a chance to play with the "Ray Gun" (an infrared thermometer).

G. Mark

TVRM Shop Updates by Steve Freer
aw90h@cs.com

> Not true. Reading 2100 had one installed
> more than three years ago.

I stand behind my statement. An event recorder is more than just a speed recorder.

I know that a diesel-type event recorder can be Installed on a steam locomotive; it can show time, speed, distance, air brake applications, and a few other informational things. But it cannot, without SERIOUS modification, show anything meaningful about power output, which is an indication of how hard the locomotive is working.

The diesel type ER shows amps and thottle position, and can be programmed to show other things. An event recorder for a steam locomotive, to be useful at all, would have to show throttle position, reverse gear position, boiler pressure, cylinder pressure, cylinder back pressure and other things. All of which would have to be properly interpreted by skilled people upon download.

As Matt stated, there is no such device availble commercially at this time, and developing one for such a tiny market isn't likely except for those with more time and money ont heri hands than the current supply industry has.

How much does a typical event recorder cost? It sounds like maybe it would be more efficient to use an industrial programmable controller to collect data.

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@eldcps.org