Just happened by this vid, the 630 is running an employee special through NC but something is missing.... No Diesel helpers, great to see along with what looks like some slightly faster (than the ATL ferry move/EOS trips) operating speeds? Either way, just great to see things are going well!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVi_6l_q8_g

Cheers, Jason

Kudos to all involved for no dismal in the consist nor in sight!!! Now that's the way it should be.

If you're gonna run steam...run steam!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Also missing; ditch lights! Thank you, thank you, thank you Norfolk Southern! You guys know how to do it!

Les

What, you've never "accidentally" left something behind when going out of town on a trip? >;-)

"Sorry, honey, forgot to pack our bathing suits--guess we'll have to cool off by skinny-dipping!"

Not only were diesels missing from the steam trips this past weekend (hallelujah!) but something else was also missing. I was really surprised to see an almost complete lack of smoke from the 630's stack. I have never witnessed a hand fired coal-burning locomotive with practically no smoke.

How is this coal treated so that smoke production is so minimized? What is happening in the firebox over conventional coal consumption? Where is it purchased? How much more does it cost compared to conventional coal? How long has it been available?

I'm sure some on this board can enlighten me. I've included a photo taken on Saturday and of course, no smoke.

Your right! That is a clean stack. I used to run steam locomotives at a nearby amusement park which were oil fired and I could never get my stack that clean. I bet G. Mark Ray has the answer.

Proper firing and good less-smoke coal.

This is good for the neighbors around the museum. Personally, I thought the smoky stuff fired a little better, but I like this stuff too. We've used this several times over the last couple years so many recent pictures, at least with 610 are similar. I found that you really have to over fire to get this stuff smoking above a slight haze, whereas the stuff we had been using for the past year generally carried a mild haze with a good even fire.



Kyle

If this is anything like other "smokeless" coals i have dealt with over the years, it is fairly pricey. Perhaps $220ton lest it is bought by the hopper loads. The best coal I have ever fired is a west virginia product, low sulfur, ultra low ash, HOT burning, quick to catch, no smoke and only about $160 a ton delivered. Only downside, and ultimately the reason it was used for only a weekend, the cinders coming out the stack (only 2mm or so in size) were still glowing as they came down even 2-3 cars back. They were in quantity enough and with sufficient thermal value to burn hats, heads and set about a dozen fires over two days.
With the exception of the fire issues, I hated to see the stuff go.

A question to the TVRM folks, in the vid i posted is a scene with the locomotive passing under a bridge. The coal looks like unwashed "mine run" rather than the 3x5 (plus not minus) one would like to see on a hand fired engine, how did such a small coal end up in the tender? Availability or vendor issues?

Cheers, Jason

Mr. Sobczynski,

Just out of curiosity, what is the ruling grade at Six Flags Over Georgia and how did you determine which coal to buy? Did you visit the mines before the hoppers were loaded or did you have them send samples of say a ton or so?

Regards.

Adam

Sigh......

I'll play along, the ruling grade is about 3% but what does that, two oil burning locomotives and something I did 14 years ago have to do with the question I pose?

Railroads had standards for coal sizes based upon whether the locomotive is hand or stoker fired. Using these standards (or the average thereof as they did vary) you specify size of coal(or select the closest size available) and believe me, size does matter! The smaller the coal on a hand fired locomotive the more the fireman has to work.

One orders the coal far enough ahead of time so as to have the ability to turn it away when it shows up if it is not what's ordered. Basic specs for the coal include ash, sulfur, volatile matter, hardness, fixed carbon, etc. If the coal does not burn well, is smokey or whatever you have a sample analyzed by an independent lab. If it doesn't meet the specified content analysis sheet provided by the broker (at least closely) then you did not receive the product ordered, there is then latitude for compensation and (if the broker seems as though they can do better) improvement in future orders.

Jim Justice had explained to us that based upon the per ton cost average of what railroads were ordering circa 2010, the brokers are selling us "metallurgical" grade coal or at the least selling us coal priced as such. We specified "non-metallurgical" bituminous with a range on percentages from the above mentioned basic specs. What we got was good coal at a very low (comparatively) per ton delivered cost.

Obviously you have never had to engage in such endeavors.

Which brings me back to the original question, was it a matter of availability, did the broker not have delivered what was ordered, mine loaded the wrong stuff? It can be difficult to get the right stuff these days....


Cheers, Jason

Jason,

After your incident with the coal causing fires and such, was the netting in the front-end of the locomotive observed for damage and such? In my readings, I happened upon a book by author W.F.M Goss "Locomotive Sparks", which describes the theory and approaches some roads took to preventing cinders of larger size from exiting the stack, while maintaining optimal draft. He goes on to describe how cinders of small enough size don't retain their heat, and are cool to the touch by the time they hit the ground. Goss, mentions one particular road using netting with a .036" wire diameter IIRC. Based on the climate and geography of where certain roads ran, they would adjust the drafting appliances accordingly, specifically the netting and diaphragms to control cinders. I wonder if this was considered in your situation before just ousting the coal in question?

Back to the topic at hand, it's refreshing to see steam on the mainline without diesel assistance. My hat is off to the folks in the mechanical department at TVRM. The 630 is a testament to what proper operation and maintenance can do for the reliability of steam.


Best,
DC

Here is the truth vs the myth of railroads which ran coal burning locomotives: You burn what you've got. Many railroads owned coal mines and some of their mines had very good coal. The purpose of the stockholders owning railroads and mines was to make money. There was no money in burning the best coal in your own locomotives; there was money in selling it to other people. The L&N had some exceptional mines in Kentucky but they often brought in coal from Alabama (Alabama swell belly) to burn in their locomotives in Kentucky. Why? They couldn't give away the crap they had in Alabama but they could get real money for their good stuff. The company specs for what they considered perfect for a stoker or hand-fired locomotive really meant nothing. What mattered was what showed up in the tender. You just dealt with it and made it work the best you could. Pull out as many of the big rocks and slate you can or wet down the powder and make it work. I actually have quite a bit of experience hand-firing coal burners and always made it work.

David, Ryan and crew seem to be doing an exceptional job of keeping 630 hot in spite of the, apparently, wrong size of the coal.

Donald,

Actually, I had just obtained and read a copy of that book from a print on demand publisher about a month prior to that incident. After the first weekend of issues I changed out all the netting with (IIRC) .045dia x 3/16 opening, it ran with that for one day..... Actually either a trip or two only with the same issues before the new coal arrived. I omitted that for the sake of simplicity in my prior post.

The size of the cinders was not really the issue, what was starting the fires was at the most 1mm square and they were fairly light..... They fell at a fairly slow rate and were on the ground for a good 10-15 seconds before going out.

Cheers, Jason

Jason,

Thanks for the input.



That's wonderful.




In all my years hand-firing, wetting the powder down creates a thick black sludge that does an extraordinary job choking the fire in the spot the scoop was placed. Much more luck was had keeping the dust/dirt dry and light so it could be shaken off the scoop for use or disposal later and kept out of the firebox whenever possible.

Best,
DC

Jason,
In the time I have been with TVRM, we've generally always used finer coal. We've had several loads of larger coal and a general consensus amongst several of us was the fact we didn't like it. There was no real difference in work load as far as shoveling more tons per day. As far as the recent change, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that it made almost no ash, which is good in one way, but after a few full day of service on the local trips, we still never shook ash and barely had enough under the green coal to keep the grates covered and very little was dumped every morning. The smokiness was also a major factor. I think it had a lot more volatile gases in it versus the current, I swear it was smoking and ignited almost as soon as the scoop landed. The new stuff we have gives a generous amount of ash and a lot less smoke, and takes a little longer before it ignites, but it stays alive a lot longer as well.

Also, its been the same person ordering the coal for probably the last 20 years, I think he knows well who to call to get what he wants. We knew that he wanted to switch long before he did.