All I can say is I wish the Friends of the East Broad Top good luck and hopefully keep the railroad at least somewhat alive this year and hopefully next year it would be back up and running again.

I've read this entire thread and clinked on various links with the idea that I'd like to donate a small amount(as that's all I have at my disposal) to help purchase the East Broad Top from the Kolvachik's. Based on certain comments here it seems that the EBTPA is the group currently trying to purchase the railroad. However, a Google search of that name links me straight to the website of the East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Company with no mention of how to donate money. Clinking on the link about the preservation society simply gives me a history of that group. Any idea on how to contact the EBTPA so that I may donate a little bit to help? Hopefully every little bit will help.

Mike Sullivan

Here's the link to an article describing local community response to the shutdown of the East Broad Top Railroad and Coal Company:

WJAC Television: Trolley rides, summer activities continue despite EBT railroad shutdown

Feel free to send money to the corporate offices of the EBT if you so choose, but it will likely do little to nothing to make a difference, even if your check has lots of commas and zeroes. The EBT is still a private, for-profit corporation, NOT a non-profit.

The Friends of the EBT are a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit:

http://www.febt.org/about.html

http://www.febt.org/donate.html

In spite of the good relationship between the EBT and the FEBT, one sole fact remains: The EBT does NOT have a "For Sale" sign on it, nor is there any price figure or estimate, as far as the public is concerned. Two previous efforts by Federal and Commonwealth government entities to preserve the railroad via acquisition came to naught. There have been rumors (unconfirmed) of private cash offers for the railroad that have been rebuffed in years past. IF there are negotiations ongoing to preserve the railroad via some form of property transfer, purchase, etc. then such efforts are closely guarded secrets, for presumably good reason.

Supporting the FEBT is the right thing to do if you support their efforts and want to see the line saved. For all we know, they may even have a separate fund dedicated to potential future acquisition. But do not be deluded into thinking it's like a public-TV pledge-a-thon where they're egging you on with "We need $40 million to buy the railroad, and as of now we have $35,967 pledged.... come on, make that call, open your wallets, the clock is ticking!"

However, many, many dollars are awaiting the day if and when that scenario is finally announced to the public--dollars that can't or won't be forthcoming as long as it's still a private enterprise.

I rather suspect that it's not just about the money, but the organization behind the money and how they respect the railroad and the Kovalchiks. There are a lot of people who have shepherded old iron for years and have been known to refuse many wonderful cash offers. Sometimes these things end up poorly (scrap) and sometimes the right person comes along and gets the piece for some unbelievably (low) consideration--though generally folks never hear about that.

Not sure of the reason for the fallout between the Kovalchik's and Salano, but rather suspect it was less about the money and more about the personalities.

Another classic in this vein is the story of the Georgetown Loop Railroad and how the interactions between CHS and various parties has affected that operation.

These circumstances should be studied (as well as they might be) be any other's wishing to get involved. Money is nice, but it's rarely that simple.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Based on this comment, which quotes the Altoona Mirror, The East Broad Top Preservation Association, which I assume is a non-profit, can accept donations that would go towards the purchase of the EBT. It is this organization that I'd like to get in touch with.

Mike Sullivan

Okay, I stand corrected. Maybe.

IF this article is completely accurate, there exists an option to purchase the railroad, and the price is set at $3 million. (The whole railroad, or just the Orbisonia-Shirleysburg leg?)

Somebody please explain to me why I have not seen an active, very aggressive "go-getter" fundraising and publicity campaign.

I will fully agree that a focus on funds to acquire the railroad, rather than shoveling more coal into a firebox, is the most prudent long-term plan. But if that is indeed the case, the second sentence of every story about the EBT not running in 2012 should have been "Instead, the preservation organization that has been leasing and operating the railroad for the past three years is making the final push to raise the necessary funds to acquire the railroad property from private ownership 'at a bargain price' for long-term, permanent preservation and restoration."

There are acceptable possible answers to my question above, and there are not-so-acceptable possible answers. If I hear the former, I will immediately commence with phone calls, dollars, and publicity-awareness. If I hear the latter, I go back to beating my head slowly and steadily against the wall.

This is an excellent question and one I'd like to get to the bottom of. You have an entire railroad, shops, yard, rolling stock and various accessories still in existence, with an organization that is supposedly trying to purchase the property and no way to donate to that specific organization. What gives?



Either way, I'm right behind you.

Mike Sullivan

Of The people who have complained or criticize the choice of the Kovalchick family. Who has actually been and paid to be there and not just chased and took pictures and video? Who has been more than once? I am NOT saying this is the case here but we see so many times that the most vocal have never been or helped in any fashion.
I have been at least once a year and sometimes twice since 1997. I pay to be there and not just hang out on side roads and intersections waiting for a photo. I hate to see them close, but instead of second guessing or complaining i am complementing the Kovalchick family. Complementing them on what the have given us since 1961. Have they made money on this? I rather doubt they have made a single dime.
This has to be a labor of love for them and for this i thank them. What i see is then reacting to the past 3 years. I did not see the past 3 years as going forward. i saw a incredible living museum turned into a over priced circus. A circus lead by a clown train.
I wouldn't hate the Kovalchicks if they didn't reopen EBT. I would be upset, but its theirs to do with what they see fit. Will I continue to go and support EBT yes i will. I can only hope they will find it in their hearts to reopen in 2013.
Just the way I see it

I spoke today with someone indirectly connected to the "shenanigans" going on up there.

All I'm willing to say at the moment is that, according to him, the "price" involved is supposedly a lot more than $3 million. Whether $3 million reflects a shortfall to be made up, a misunderstanding, bad reporting, or what, is pretty much anybody's guess.

Also, the recent "Thomas the Tank Engine" event up there supposedly created a problem. If there were something I could hear from the "horse's mouth" about this to confirm this, it might be very relevant and important to future "Thomas" event holders, or those considering same.

So what was the problem created by Thomas?

I've never been. I live in Dallas and I work for a non-profit railway. I very rarely travel and when I do it's not that far. I have never had the opportunity to visit the EBT but it's on my list. My point as an outsider looking in is that from the pictures that have been released by the FEBT, from the videos that have been released by them, from the numerous stories I've heard over the years, and the articles I've read, I believe that this site, railroad, and shops complex is a national treasure that NEEDS to be saved so that future generations may learn what this time period was like by actually experiencing it. I thank the Kolvachiks for their hard work over the past 50 years in keeping this railroad running. They have done a fantastic job and without them the line wouldn't exist. But I would still like to see it saved. I'm not saying this because I want to someday chase a train along the line, or even so I can run a locomotive someday. I'm saying this because I want my nephew to one day be able to walk into the shops of EBT and see the belts running from one machine to the next as men stand making parts for the rolling stock just like they did 100 years ago. I want him to stand by the side of the tracks and feel the earth shake as a fire breathing dragon goes roaring by. These are experiences that are few and far between and he doesn't need to read about them in a book. He needs to experience it first hand, as do all children so they can understand what it took to move this country along so many years ago. It's a history lesson and one that can never be duplicated or fully understood unless your there. So if you know the Kolvachiks, if you know somebody that can help save this railroad, let them know why it needs to be saved.

That's my opinion

Mike Sullivan

UNCONFIRMED *allegation*:

Supposedly, there was supposed to be money left over from the Thomas event for the EBT.

Supposedly, there wasn't.

The discussion/debate seems to be over whether a) it was impossible to clear a profit after paying the "costs" of a Thomas event (the topic of the expense-to-return of a "Thomas" event has been discussed here before; do a search); b) the lessors didn't turn over proceeds as expected; or c) the EBT management had inflated expectations of said proceeds.

The ONLY--and I repeat, ONLY--reason I even bring this up is because this is relevant to consideration as to whether "your" museum or line might want to bring "Thomas" or a similar "visitor" in for a visit. What I heard (which was well-placed rumor-mongering, to be sure) would scare me away from even attempting such an event, at least with "Thomas" and if the terms were anything like what was alleged by these folks.

Disclaimer:As with all such allegations about EBT operations and administration, the above could all be a load of codswallop.

I know of a certain Eastern PA operation that ditched Thomas after their first and only year of running it. The numbers came out to ride, but the royalties and other costs associated, and the requirements by the DOWT people, for a FOR-Profit operation, was just not justifiable enough to continue it.

EBT is NOT a non-profit operation, even if it is being run by a Sub Contractor that is Non Profit. EBT is a business. (Still stupid of them IMO to shut down completely, after such a successful season, regardless of reasons - they are now losing any potential profit they made last year - and maybe the K's want it to be in the red for the bigger tax write off?)

The only clear benefit for the EBT from Thomas, in my opinion, is just the sheer numbers of people that came out (I've read where it was more than a full seasons worth of riders just for the Thomas Event) and the public relations it created for a railroad in the "middle of nowhere".

I think operations like Strasburg, that can handle 500 people on just one Thomas trip (out of 8-14 trips per day of JUST Thomas) - in addition to their regular trains running at the same time with large crowds, have better chances at turning large profits. How many operations do we know with said capacity of the Strasburg?...Surely the EBT is NOT one of them.

I'd be willing to bet that this [SRR] is where most expectations of DOWT come from.

Why post it then?