The 3042 tender has had heavy modification made to it by the NYC to convert the front end to having a coupler in stead of a draw-bar. A good share of the casting was cut away and the buffer is totally gone. There is also no stoker what so ever in the 3042 tender. The other side that you don't see got much hotter in the fire and has much more warping of the side. Over all it is in fair condition and could be made into a good A-tank if there was a need for one.

The 3001 tender is really in very good condition and in the scope of things the work that needs to be done to it is relativity minor. For display the main thing would be to extent the coal bunker sides back to the way they originally were. For operations the biggest expense will be replacing most of the wheel sets as most have rim stamped wheels.

The stoker issue is more than the screw being cut and the motor missing, the entire coal fuel system is gone from the locomotive. Everything that was added by the T&P int the "Oil-burner conversion" was merely cosmetic. So therefore the 3001 basically
has no fuel system at this time.

The way the 2 tenders are displayed now allows for a story to be told and got comparisons to be made as to the histories of the 2 that started out the same and through their existences have been through many different things.

Mark A. Frazier

(learned from the ''Surviving Tenders'' thread, a while back):

** supposedly ** there were 2 ( I.C. ? ) large tenders scrapped within the last few years,
from which the coal stokers were saved in their entirety.

N.Y.C. 3001 would make a good home for one of those...

Before I give the wrong impression to anyone I no longer have involvement personally in the National New York Central Railroad Museum but I was involved there for many years and was the Curator there 2006-2008. My comments are based on my knowledge from my time there. That being said I do not want to give any impression that I am speaking for the museum or the City of Elkhart and any opinions I express are my own personal opinions.

RDG 179 the IC tenders that you are referring to were from 2612 and 2614 and belonged to a friend of mine in Rockford. I believe that homes were found for both of those stokers. When I left Elkhart and moved to Florida there was a stoker motor there in the event it would ever be needed.

Currently I personally do not know of any plans for the restoration of the 3001 to operation. Therefore any speculations about need for a stoker is somewhat a moot point. However that does not say that could not or should not be restored. In fact in my opinion the 3001 is a very desirable locomotive to be restored.

I give up- I guess I'll just have to change my initials to that of a certain locomotive builder, as hinted at by Len/Schuykill Valley/Lackawanna 565/Conrail whatever several years ago-

(oh, never mind-)

Mr. E. D. Moxley my apologies, other than I was dyslexic before they had a name for it I just was not paying attention to what I was typing.

I also found my pictures of how the stoker and grates were altered on the 3001.

Why exactly was the stoker pulled out in the first place?

Is it known whether or not the water scoop equipment is still intact on 3001's tender? Or 3042's tender for that matter?

Joe,
The T&P removed anything that indicated that it was a NYC engine or a coal burner when they dressed it up as the 909 for display.

Orion,

The scoops are totally gone from both tenders on the 3001 tender there is more evidence of where it was than on the 3042.

Mark A. Frazier

Mark,

Thanks for the great answers and info, and the photos.

I visited the NNYCM last year. It is a great museum!

Too bad 3001 is so butchered, but on the flip-side, if it wasn't for the T&P, she likely wouldn't be around at all.

Shame that so many RRs like N.Y.C. were so hell-bent on scrapping every single locomotive,
but that's a topic for a whole different thread here.

Steve G.
Reading, PA

In that case, what was the rational for redecorating the engine as T&P engine?

The popular legend is that the T&P had promised T&P 909 to the city of Dallas (or wherever), but found that they had scrapped it earlier, due to some lack of appropriate communications (the old "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is saying" story), and that the T&P then approached the NYC to sell them a locomotive that would "pass" as the T&P steamer.

Sounds crazy, I know--but no less "crazy" than an "Amtrak GG1" now preserved in Dallas/Frisco....

I seem to recall the story is--- that a T&P 2-10-4 (638?) had been presented to Dallas about 1949, and after a few years had been so badly vandalized, it was scrapped. Dallas Fair later regretted that, and asked T&P for another chance, for another loco. T&P had scrapped everything by then, and obtained the NYC 4-8-2 and did a few things to make it a stand-in for T&P 909.

Howard P.

Another interesting thing was with all that was done to make it a T&P engine when it was being prepared to move the last set of train orders were found stuck in the brake stand. Those orders showed it as the lead engine on the Marion Branch headed toward Elkhart. It was cut off before getting to Elkhart, the other engine brought the train on in and was to then lead the last steam powered train out of Elkhart the next day. Just another trivial little fact.

Mark A. Frazier

Is there a lot to see at the NYC Museum? Anything open for inspection?

Steve

Steve,

There is quite a bit to see at the museum, you could spend anywhere from a half hour to a half day there depending on how in depth you want to be in your visit. It has now been 2 years since I personally have been there. I can only go on what is being communicated to me but it is my understanding that many of the cars are open at times.

Mark A. Frazier