Les,

the front of the 124 in Dupo, IL is where the original headlight from the NYC 3001 turned up at. A trade was worked out to get it back, but the trade nearly didn't happen because of a very harsh comments were made at the last moments of the trade. That is another story for another day.

Mark A. Frazier

Richard and G.W. -

Thanks for the info on the J1. I have often thought that the Pennsy's one great omission from their preservation program at Northumberland, was the lack of a J1. Whether the story is that they tried to move one and had to scrap it because of derailments, or if one wasn't put into the program because of movement restrictions on the line to Northumberland, it makes me at least understand why a 2-10-4 was not included.

Les

C&O 2701 went to Buffalo, was vandalized so heavily it was scrapped.

Dave -

C&O 2-8-4 #2701 actually made it into preservation, but was scrapped later due to the vandalism you mentioned. There are some other similar examples including Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #638 and a Detroit Edison 0-6-0.

Les

A delightful discussion of what got away for what ever reason. As a kid growing up in the 1960's I remember reading about what was saved/scrapped or still surviving in Trains Magazine although not that many articles were specifically about this {going by my bad memory}. Later on as a kid was brought along to Mid Continent by my older brother and introduced to many of the founding members of that organization. After many of the board meetings there were many slide shows and old 8mm movies shown. These slide/movie presentations were by historians {hate to use the term railfan, as I feel they were more historians than foamers} that captured the end of an era.

To those younger, it is probably a good thing to remember that so much was available and just like now only so much money and room available. Fast forward to 2012, people often criticize museums and people who have all this historical equipment, but can't find room indoors or money to restore/ repair to use. Not trying to hijack the thread, but after reading about all the equipment that was not saved for what ever reason, one has to remember that so much was available in a fairly short window of time it is amazing how much got saved! In my not so humble opinion. I am so grateful to the generation before me that had the insight and fortitude to successfully save what did survive. Most of us do not recognise the fact that "today is the good olde days". Then as now.

In an attempt to stay on topic with the original thread, a few instances of what got away before or after being saved. Recall that Mid Continent had the option of two locomotives down south in AL and LA, but only got one from each place, only so much money at the time. Woodward Iron in Birmingham, Al gave the option of either a 2-8-0 or the #41 decopod which is related to the famous Strasburg #90. The #41 was saved. The Lousiana Cyrpus Lumber Co., MC had the option of buying the tiny Lima 2-6-0, LCLC#2 or the very cute 2-8-0 #3 which is also saved in a park down there. I mention this though in the case of the LCLC locomtives neither were offically scrapped, even though the LCLC #2 looks that way, dispite being "saved". Not sure, but think the "Woodward"
2-8-0 was not saved. Also not sure of the original owner of the Woodward Iron Co
2-8-0, so maybe it is somewhere around yet. Both examples of availablity were from the early/mid 1960s time frame.

Enjoy the stories very much, they remind me of my younger days when the founders of MC were attempting to save what they could.

Cheers, John.

There are some interesting stories floating around about Doc Roberts and donated engines and equipment and why some aren't here. I can't verify them although I believe they are true and it's hard to figure out what his logic was or why he did some of the things that he did.
I still don't know how the MOT ended up with an Italian electric locomotive.

According to John B. Corns' The Wheeling and Lake Erie Railway Volume 2, NKP 2-8-4 #820 (former W&LE 6420) was held by the NKP for donation to the town of Brewster, but these plans fell through and she was eventually cut up by the N&W in November of 1964.

While I don't mind those NKP Berks, it would've been nice to have a Wheeling sister to compare it to. Perhaps someone should work on convincing Jerry Jacobson to get a set of Boxpok drivers cast, no?

John -

A few years ago, I picked up an old copy of TRAINS Magazine and there was a short one-line quote that a Seaboard Air Line Railroad 4-8-2 was going to be preserved. I never heard anything about that from any other source and I don't know where TRAINS got their original information. Those SAL 4-8-2's were mighty good looking engines though. Too bad one wasn't preserved.

As for the Woodward Iron Company 2-8-0 that Mid-Continent DIDN'T take, I think the Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum in Calera, Alabama has a Woodward Iron Consolidation. Off hand, I don't recall the number so I don't know if it was the same one that was offered to MCRM. Woodward had a pretty good roster of steam at one time, so they may have had more than one 2-8-0.

Les

I recall reading in Trains magazine back in the mid 1980's of a Boston & Maine E7A diesel that was offered somewhere for preservation, but was regarded as "too new".

I can verify (through restrictions in employee TTs and the like) that getting a PRR J1 (or, for that matter, a Q1 or Q2) to Northumberland, or other such Eastern locales, would have been a Herculean task for the reason described.

The popular (albeit ultimately unprovable) legend that supposedly explains why a J1 wasn't saved by PRR management is that as good as the design may have been, it was ultimately a "clone" or "copy" of the C&O 2-10-4, down to almost the same blueprints, imposed upon the PRR during World War Two by the War Production Board, which wouldn't let the PRR expend the effort to design a new locomotive design. Oddly, some tests supposedly showed that the PRR managed to improve upon the performance of the C&O design, if only slightly.

Louisiana Cypress #1, a Porter 2-6-2, survives as well, albeit in pieces, in Griffin, GA.

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... isplay=371

Andrew Durden
Decatur, GA

it's a crime that the PRR didn't find another place, such as Crestline to store a J,Q, and the other big engines.

I seem to recall reading somewhere, that the Illinois Railway Museum almost acquired ex-Texas & Pacific 4-6-0 #200 from a stone company that operated as the Willis Short Line. The ancient engine was in horrible shape mechanically (although still being used to move cars around), but would have made a good display piece. Don't remember why the engine didn't end up at IRM. Maybe someone from Union can comment.

Les

Tim, 763 already has the Timken roller bearing trucks from a Wheeling Berk under the tender (IIRC, the only one of the remaining NKP Berks so-equipped), so it's half-way there already. ;-)

Back to the subject of the thread- I'm watching an example of preservation/non-preservation right now. Two original Charleston, SC streetcars miraculously survived scrapping back in the 1940's because a man bought them and built a house around them. The house was going to be demo'ed a few years ago, and a developer found out about the trolleys and hit on the idea of saving and restoring them for a new mass transit service as part of a huge development he had planned. A regular contributor to RyPN assisted with the move of the trolleys into a warehouse where they'd be protected until plans were further along.

4 or 5 years later, the cars sit in the open in an industrial section of town, unprotected from the weather and heavily vandalized. I see them just off I-26 on my commute to work every morning and wonder how long before they'll be past saving.

Here's a couple more I thought of. Salt Lake Garfield & Western interurban passenger cars #501 and #502 which were built in 1918 by McGuire Cummings and rebuilt in 1951 as trailers. The four other cars in the series were scrapped in 1953, but I remember these two in storage and largely complete as late as 1982. A few years later they were both put on open display (in different locations) near the Great Salt Lake at the Saltair "resort". After years of heavy vandalism, #501 was scrapped in 2006, and #502 was scrapped a few months ago. The stripped, graffiti- covered carcass of #502 was a popular spot for local photographers who trespassed on private property to reach it. I suspect that's why it was scrapped.