There is this add going round claiming how great New York state is and they claim to have built the first railroad. Almost all the sources I can find point to Massachusetts as having the first railroad.

I'd bet on a European predecessor to anything on this continent.

dave

It truly, entirely depends on exactly how one wants to define "railroad," "railway," "rail road," or whatever. First railed guideway for wagons? (I think there was a German mine line back in the 1500s.) First flanged wheels on rails? First metal rails? First incorporated company to lay a railroad to serve others? First railroad between two separate locations? Between two towns? Two cities? Carrying passengers? Using locomotives?

The only thing I can think of for N.Y. would probably be the Mohawk & Hudson, which for all practical purposes is part of a three-way tie with the Baltimore & Ohio and the South Carolina Rail Road--who chartered first, who ran trains first, etc. The Massachusetts "entry" would be at best an industrial line, as I recall, but I'm not about to get into a nit-picking debate tonight. Then we have the Stockton & Darlington in England, followed by the Liverpool & Manchester.....

Yeah, the MA quarry guys have a decent claim, but I am in the D&H camp for first rr in the US

Sounds like the arguments about the "Oldest House" in St. Augustine, FL the Nations Oldest City.

Mark A. Frazier

What about John Stevens' circular track? Of course, that's Jersey... go New Jersey!!

;-}

I think the claim is linked to the Stourbridge Lion steam locomotive of 1829.

Even before (and aside from) the Stourbridge Lion trial in 1829, the D&H "Gravity Railroads" were in fact, common carriers, hauling coal, lumber, feed, building supplies and passengers amongst other items, long before the B&O.

That the trains (not individual cars in most cases) were pulled uphill via stationery hoists is irrelevant.

Dave

The closest 'factoid' that seems to have gotten somehow dragged into this is that the Mohawk & Hudson is supposed to have been the oldest 'scheduled' railroad operating between two points on a timetable, between Albany and Schenectady in 1837. Does that mean the B&O was unscheduled and doesn't count?

I'll bow to the likes of John Hankey and Bill Withuhn to get the facts straight, but yeah, I have been yelling 'foul' at the television on that lately.

And I'll tell you, you won't find anyplace in New York State Empire Development to take responsibility for that, either.

Hmmm. They did invent the Internet though. I heard it on the internet.

You know Randy, 96% of facts are made up!

And the railroad clip in the NY ad is an MU car of some sort - maybe subway? But not a mainline engine by any stretch.

Wesley

"rail" roads are not new like the mining stuff, its a matter of technology stacking onto technology putting 2 and 2 together, just like steam boilers have been around since the toyish spinner over a fire probably in old oriental times.

As others have noted, it depends on what the meaning of "first" is. The claim of the Granite Railway near Boston MA to be first is based on the fact that it was the first chartered railroad to evolve into a common carrier. It was indeed a mostly industrial line, but it was built to serve (for compensation) several independent quarries in the Quincy district rather than simply hauling the produce of its owner.

I enjoyed the experience, for a couple of years long ago, of working as a forester in the Blue Hills Reservation which includes the historic Quincy Quarrying district and much of the remains of the Railway. Back then about all that remained was the incline and a few short stretches of stone rail along the route, mostly buried in brush.
J

I think you may be referring to the Aeolipile (Wind Ball) created by Heron of Greece ~100 AD,

Rich C.

P.S. this discussion was also recently covered on Earlyrail (Yahoo group) and here is what I turned up for dates & situations:

- 3/1826 Granite Ry. Incorporated, 10/1826 cable & horse powered, Steam powered in 1871 as part of Old Colony & Newport RR, later became part of the NY,NH&H. The GRy developed the first railroad switches, turntables and double truck cars.
- 4/1826 Mohawk & Hudson Incorporated, 8/1831 deWitt Clinton powers first train
- 1827 Delaware & Hudson RR Incorporated, was D&H Canal Co, 8/8/1829 first run of Stourbridge Lion in Honesdale Pa, but determined to be insufficient for task & crushed the test track (was to weigh 4 tons, weighed 7.5 tons). 1860 first steam engines used on line between Olyphant and Providence, Pa, 1863 extended to Scranton, Pa [`sister’ engine to the Lion was the Pride of Newcastle, a.k.a. America, a.k.a. Stourbridge Lion (first one renamed before delivery) exploded 7/26/1829]
- 12/1827 South Carolina Canal & RR Co Chartered Charleston & Hamburg RR, 1829 experimental train into downtown Charleston, 4/1830 double track RR in operation.

So by this, C&HRR was the first US railroad to successfully use steam locomotives.

(after throwing napalm on the fire I will duck and run from the flame war... ;<O )

1826 Apr 9: The Mohawk and Hudson Railroad was incorporated as the first railroad chartered
in New York State and the first railroad in the United States designed to be powered by a locomotive engine as opposed to horse-drawn or gravity railroads. It opened on August 9, 1831 using steam locomotive deWitt Clinton.


Don't shoot me, copied from Wikipedia for what its worth!