Many thanks to the folks who posted info on youth volunteer opportunities, policies, etc. I would love to involve my 6-year-old at the Spencer Shops (38 miles from us), but the rules prohibit it. I can understand that-insurance; liability issues; etc-but I wish we could do something there together, even if it were cleaning passenger cars or sweeping the floors.

Does anybody know if the 25th anniversary events at Spencer will include caboose trains? It's time my 2-year-old daughter had her first caboose ride!

John

jcpdeke@aol.com

>
> John you are kidding right? I mean six?

Forget the fact the average six year old is impulsive and obvlivious and even youth organizations won't take 'em that young..

Unless your kid is being watched every minute-There's too many predators out there.


superheater@beer.com

I'm very serious-and I hear what you're saying. This is not about some dad dropping off his kid and then the dad does his own thing elsewhere. What I'm saying is that my son and I would work side-by-side, every minute that we're there...and if he lost interest, he can bring a toy, and I'd continue working.

I was a volunteer at several museum organizations, and I respect the reality that operating rolling stock, power tools, etc, demand a lot of respect, maturity, competence, etc. I realize that someone with a 6-year-old can't be uncoupling cars, needle-gunning a boiler shell, etc. However, there are some less-glamorous-and safer-tasks that could nurture the inspiration of the next generation.

No way would a museum-or I-tolerate leaving a 6-year-old without a parent. I'm about as paranoid a parent as they come!



jcpdeke@aol.com

John,

Having brought, er- dragged my son ( at ages ranging from 3 to 7) to the railroad to work on various projects, including ministering to Vulcan # 17, I can comment on this with a certain amount of experience in hand. Despite taking him to Cass railfan weekend at age 5 months for his first cinders, he remains totally unimpressed with everything after the first 5 minutes of being there on a work day. All my fondest hopes of sharing this activity with him go out the window once boredom sets in and as soon as I actually try to do something- the man was right, "ya cant change film with a kid on your back"
Your mileage may vary, but I found that unless I resigned myself to not actually getting anything done it was very frustrating for the both of us.

Not to mention the skaty-eight thousand ways a kid can get hurt in this environment...I continue to invite him to come with me , but now I let him decide if he wants to go.

Bill

staybolt@bellsouth.net

>
By all means do things with your kid! All to soon he won't want to be seen with you. Do things that involve trains like watching, going to other museums etc. Do what you can do "with" him. If you are lucky when he is older he will still like trains and want to go with you, or without you, to a museum and take part or do something on his own like restore an engine. Believe me it works like this and can be a great experience for both of you. It is wonderful to ride in the jump seat of a berkshire while your kid is the engineer.

johncgra@locl.net

John;

I take my two kids, 12 and 15 out Saturday mornings in the fall/winter/spring.

I find that the tollerance of the others working is good, but I have to try to keep my own projects in check, and work with them doing things in their own scope.

I also have to make sure that they are out of the way when anything big is happening; they do not posess the necessary "survival instinct". Fortunately, there are others in our restoration group who also keep an eye out for my two, and for others that show up from time to time.

My 15 year old is a good painter, especially if she can talk about horses with another restoration member; my 12 year old sand blasts and needle-guns quite well.

I would MUCH rather come alone (because I can be much more productive), but do wish to have younger people involved - so I agree with having children along, so long as they are supervised. My view is that this is "short term pain for long term gain". How else do we pass on knowledge of railroads to younger generations?

Saying that, in my opinion, 6 is way too young for active work. I was a single parent raising my 2 kids from when the youngest was 6; so I think I know what kind of mind-set some 6 year olds have. Active restoration was "not on" at that time.

Ideally, teenagers or those in their early twenties would be the best age; strong, aware, smart, and usually respectful of experience of others not related to them ;-)

FYI, The Bluebell Railway in Britain have their "Stepney" club for those up to the age of 8, and the 9F club for those 9 to 15. These are organized programs, however. One of our members volunteers at the Bluebell for 2 weeks per year, and has mentioned that the 9F club in particular do impressive things.

John Stewart
Ottawa

>I would love to involve my 6-year-old
> at the Spencer Shops (38 miles from us), but
> the rules prohibit it. I can understand
> that-insurance; liability issues;

the 9f club
freewrl-1@rogers.com

In regards of whether it is appropriate or not to include young childen in your railroad activities, I would like to add my two cents. I'd like to think I'm representative of the successful side of this sort of involvement.

My dad always did have a think for trains (and anything mechanical). He would take my brother and two sisters to railroad events (I'm the youngest), but they grew out of it. On the other hand, I grew into it.

Our early adventures included checking out trains here locally. Being on the "hill" in south Omaha when the coalies would get knuckles. Going to various railroad museums and excursions. Etc, etc, etc.

One notable event was when the C&NW had their open house at their Council Bluffs roundhouse. In 1985 (or thereabouts) it was still a diesel shop. They opened it up to the public and had C&NW 1385 pulling excursions. I also recall my dad and I going to that roundhouse at night from time to time to check out what was happening by peering through the large windows.

This may sound inconsequential, but considering the fact that I own a former C&NW passenger car, operate a nonprofit, and am working to join the railroad industry translates to something meaningful. I know myself and the others on this board are more or less exceptions rather than the rule, but you never know how things will end up until you try.

God Bless,
Gerald W. Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

> By all means do things with your kid! All to
> soon he won't want to be seen with you. Do
> things that involve trains like watching,
> going to other museums etc. Do what you can
> do "with" him. If you are lucky
> when he is older he will still like trains
> and want to go with you, or without you, to
> a museum and take part or do something on
> his own like restore an engine. Believe me
> it works like this and can be a great
> experience for both of you. It is wonderful
> to ride in the jump seat of a berkshire
> while your kid is the engineer.


hrrhs@aol.com

> I'm very serious-and I hear what you're
> saying.

Sorry, I might've jumped to a conclusion-it seems to me (as a non-parent) that in general-people are more interested in warehousing their kids than actually raising them.

Of course, then they are suprised when "junior" shows up with holes in every part of his/her body.

superheater@beer.com

For awhile in the mid-1980s to early 90s I was a railroad museum board member and that included a commitment to man the place (open up, sell admission tickets, answer phone, rerail trains on the model railroad layout, etc.) a couple of weekends a year. It was a small place, so one person could handle it.

Often, I took one or the other of my sons along, who during that time were ages 6-10, and they were content to either be with me in the office or to explore the exhibits or to wander through the non-operating rolling stock at their pace. With no moving equipment or workshop activity, safety wasn't an issue. And as another person noted here, one key is to have plenty of things along to keep kids occupied (books or coloring books, toys, games, etc.) if they lose interest in what you're doing.

Sometimes my sons enjoyed becoming ad hoc tour guides for visitors, who seemed charmed or at least amused that kids knew so much about trains. All in all, they enjoyed those weekends, though neither has turned out to be a rail enthusiast (they're now age 21 and 22) in the sense that most readers here would define it. But that doesn't diminish their recollections of those times. One night as my younger son and I were returning home from museum duty, we came across a Conrail MIL-symbol special move loaded with military tanks (this was during the Gulf war) and we paced it as it rolled along--to my son's great delight. As another writer here posted, if you have kids, spend time with them because sooner than you think, they'll be gone. Trains are fun, but family is important and if there's a way to combine the two, so much the better. The lyrics of the ballad "Cat's in the Cradle" are pretty much on target.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

cupper@att.net

if you are not Amish to raise kids with a long and robust attention span? Do they learn to be bored by the fast bombardment found in electronic media or is it endemic to their age? I can't recall being bored until I grew up and had to slow down to match the pace of the classes I attended.

Maybe we need to be more proactive to make children useful at a younger age. I pushed for as much involvement as I could get in what interested me at an early age to fend off boredom. I am at a loss to understand what makes kids different these days.

If we can find ways to develop programs that encourage their involvement I am all for it. I just don't know where or how to begin. What is the next step after THOMAS?

Dave



irondave@bellsouth.net

As a further comment, I ensure that my quality time and relationship with my son is not defined by his inability to get all giddy around steam locomotives. Time does indeed fly and although I always offer him the opportunity to share that stuff with me, a box of nitecrawlers and a purple Zebco fishing pole wins out over trains. Time will tell whether he grows into it or out of it and until then I balance what I want with what he will do and can do.
Maybe paint the locomotive purple metal-flake with a Hot Wheels logo would do the trick ?

staybolt@bellsouth.net

All good points. While the potential to combine rail activities with father/son activities is tempting (and I like the "nurture" vs. "nature" concept-yep, I'm trying to influence here!), it certainly doesn't make or break the relationship. Fishing, a trip to the hardware store (he's into compressors now; earlier it was vacuum cleaners and then power tools), yard work (backyard, not rail yard), hiking, reading (he could pick out a picture of a locomotive vacuum brake system at age 3-now it's volcanoes, junior detectives, and dinosaurs), or playing ball-I enjoy it all with my son.

There is a place in railroad preservation for these youngsters-it just needs the right mix of safety, mutual interest, and yes, attention span!

jcpdeke@aol.com

I volunteer, firing and running the 30-inch gage Shay at Rough & Tumble Museum, Kinzers, PA.(54th Annual Reunion held this past August.)

(sorry, I'm not qualified on setting up "links") www.roughandtumble.org

It's a small two-truck Shay, home-made at/for R&T, about the size of the 2-foot Shay posted for sale with a link earlier this year. We run a loop around our museum, just shy of a half-mile.

One of our volunteers who has been helping for the past three years, brings his son along. During operations, the "yute" helps as a "conductor" on the train, and gets an occasional cab-ride. He is usually the one who is right up over the coal pile to the top of the tank to take on water.

On work sessions (non run days) he is a great "gopher" to fetch tools and such.

He is also there for our track projects. No, he can't handle the air-spiker yet, because it weighs more than he does, but he lays out spikes on each new tie, etc. and helps where he can.

I'll mention that he celebrated his TENTH birthday this year with us at our Spring Steam-up, cinders in the cake and all!

Obviously he's supervised, and kept away from any of the hazards. But he's "at home" with this kind of work, and used to it, since his Dad is a mechanic and welder.

The kid loves the grease and the coal dirt! It's like Indian War-Paint to him. Don't even think about asking him to wash that coal dirt off his face until well after we're shut down for the night!

He will be old enough to begin student-firing in a few years. If he doesn't lose the interest as he grows up, he could become one of the "next generation" steam people.

I started firing on traction engines at age 10, running a half scale, and I've helped supervise the next generation of young engineers (I sometimes tell them it is a lot like babysitting -- you have to watch constantly, be patient, and do a lot of dirty stuff you might rather not, but the pay is more than worth it.)

Kids CAN do a lot of things that we (as a society) just don't give them credit for. Also you have to catch them when THEY are interested, if you wait until you think they are ready, their interest will have gone elsewhere.

My daughters (ages 9 and 2) had their first traction engine rides at 6mos, and 3mos, their first train rides at 9mos and 3weeks...they're both steam crazy so far. but if they want to keep on, or get into whatever later, that will be their choice.

There is a lot of merit to this post. We need to get young people interested in steam. I have been involved with live steam locomotives since 1963. My parents took us all over to see and operate locomotives. My son, now 14, has grown up around live steam locomotives and builder's plates. He has never shown any interest and I was not going to push the issue. Last year he purchased a Train Simulator game for the computer on his own. All of a sudden I was being asked questions about firing, injectors, brake systems, etc. Last year he ran my father's 1-1/2" NYC 4-6-4 for the first time. This year he has run my father's 1-1/2" scale SOU 4-6-2. He recently graduated to full size by firing a CP 4-6-2. I am quite pleased as is my father and brother. We hope that the interest will continue as we need young members to carry on the traditions at the live steam club and as volunteers on full size operations.

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steamfan@crusoe.net