This loco also exploded. Much later though, about 1981.

Well now you have us all interested! Where was this and are there any details? I am sure that it was NOT in the USA. Chinese?

EFDTC Tubarao, Brazil. Baldwin 2-10-4 "Texan" Exploded 15th August 1981

Brazil:

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/sergio/ter ... stina.html

http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,219973,220059

Same loco just days before.

OK, that's five posts about a locomotive-boiler explosion. Will somebody please tell me why this event is supposed to be relevant to Mr. Austin's discussion of lap-seam boiler problems? Which is what the thread is about?

As a potentially-interesting (for preservation) note: see the discussion on p.786 of the November 1907 issue of 'Power' magazine, where it is noted that failure of lap-riveted seams in iron boilers was notably absent, and a credible reference indicates why this may have been so.

My guess is that said locomotive in question was constructed with a lap seam boiler.

The locomotive in question was a relatively modern (1940's) Baldwin product. No lap seams involved in that one. The photos show the boiler shell intact, so the failure must have been in the firebox. Not unexpected given the age and usage.
My understanding is that NO steam lap seam locomotive boiler has been produced since the early part of the 20th century. Locomotives had outgrown the size and pressure limitations of these boilers by then. Most of the lap seam boilers still in existance are found in steam traction.

As a person who deals with existing lap seam boilers on traction engines, I'd like to temper the "Last straw of confidence" comment concerning lap seams.

We have all read various reports of explosions of all types of boilers for all types of reasons.

I present this lap seam boiler FACT:
The present day traction engines that have their original lap seam boilers have operated for nearly 100 years now, and these boilers are now wearing out from usage and having to be replaced by new boilers. They are worn out from normal wear and tear, not from design problems. Thus, bear in mind that no matter if the design seems solid or faulty, it has survived well over it's designed lifespan.

Yes, there are several original lap seam (and butt strap) traction engine boilers in operation still. These are continually reviewed by owners and inspectors alike, and repairs are done when necessary.

Yes, there could be a lap seam failure tomorrow......or a crown sheet.....or a staybolt.....or a brace.....or a butt strap.....or......

Mark

I agree with Mr. Jordan....and, I shall state clearly, I will never have the knowledge or expertise of Mr. Austin.

The purpose of posting the Brazilian images was simply to show that even in "modern times" on what clearly was an established steam railroad with outwardly well maintained locomotives, there was a catastrophic boiler failure.

I deliberately limited the narrative associated with the images to see what conclusions other would draw. I could have written almost verbatim what Mr. David wrote about his and Mr. Daugherty's visit except that it was my long held understanding that these two gentlemen has actually been invited to help investigate the explosion as opposed to them happening on to the wreckage by timing.

In summary: There are still many well maintained lap seam boilers still in service world wide and 2. I reject by posting the Brazilian images that I "hijacked" this discussion.

If there is interest, I can also provide images of another failure a full 10 years later in a different country.

Thank you

TH

I would be curious to know whether that 2-10-4 explosion was caused by a low water condition rather than a mechanical defect. I would say that a great percentage of the boiler explosions that I am aware of were the simple act of trading water for steam or other crew negligence.

I am curious, Mr Austin...did a lap seam boiler regularly beat you up everyday when you were going to grade school? What do cheaply built HRT lap seam mill boilers have to do with railway preservation anyhow?

The only locomotive I can think of in service lately with a lap seam boiler is the Espee 2248...and it has a Sacramento built lap seam boiler with a welt plate (imho which is the worst of both worlds).

Here's a couple of interesting notes I made on this incident, from this article.

Firstly, the watchman and fireman noted that the usual practice when putting the boiler on standby for the end of work was to close the bottom guage glass valve "in case the glass broke only steam could escape, and not water". That seems like an open invitation for human error, to me.

Secondly, this account states that there was tearing in the parent material...if the lap was wholly at fault, wouldn't it have just 'unzipped' at the seam?


Mark Jordan, Bruce Babcock and others have devoted considerable resources and effort to finding the dastardly "lap seam crack", and I have too. Lots of failured due to grooving, broken stays, fiddled with srv's, but no lap seam cracks in anything under 40".

To put long story in short form, no one has been able to find an instance of a boiler failure due to a lap steam crack on any internally fired boilers in the last 120-130 years of records. You will also note that these HRT mill boilers were all invariably of the cheapest quality made, most with plain punched holes, with no reaming involved in finishing rivit holes. Plain punching the hole work hardens the metal around it, and leads to the cracking-not the design of the seam. I myself have examined several scrapped longitudenal lap seams on scrapped boilers, not a one had a crack.

The lap seam witch hunt of the turn of the last century was means to cover up poor practices and drive the marginal boilermakers out of business. Since there was no way to visibly verify if an assembled rivited joint had been reamed or drilled to remove work damaged material that would propigate a crack, the simple solution, from the inspection/insurance/engineering point of view was to go to a butt strap joint from the point the supposed problem was discovered. Bluntly, you knew good and well there wasn't a lap seam crack if the thing had a butt strap joint. Most all lap seam failure occured in boilers that had been in service 5-10 years, and any boiler that was going to get one and fail already did a hundred years ago. Just as in Britain before, after plainpunching of rivit holes was discontinued as a practice, so did the cracks due to it.

BTW you can still legally build and use a lap seam boiler in Britain...is the Scepter'd Isle just an amalgam of hot water bombs waiting to go off?

See J. David's new thread "EFDTC No. 312 explosion August 15, 1981" for an explanation.

Les