Would any of you know anything about Brooklyn Rapid Transit #169???

I believe she was built originally for Nassau Electric RR. I know at some point she had the #2554.

Could use some pictures of her in her birthday clothes if you got'em.

I am a steam guy,don't know a whole lot about antique street cars but got volunteered to restore her.

I am actually having a blast though! Wood is a nice change!

For those of you who are interested. We have one side of the car stripped down to bare wood. The other side is getting there (lots of hours with the heat gun,scraper and sanding block). A plan and a fixture have been made to bring her curved sides back in. Her single truck is being needle scaled. The interior moldings have been pulled and numbered for refinishing. Sorting through bunches of parts that were in the car( it seems to all be there). She will be getting new canvas on the roof!

She is a cute little thing!

Thanks,
Scott K

Have you found any older/original lettering by sanding down the paint currently on the car?

Hey Scott!

She is a great little car. I did some clean up work on her 3-4 years ago. It's nice that she is all there, just a bit like a model someone else built that you are cleaning up. I just wish that she could be restored without the hideous glassed in vestibules. A much prettier car without the "aftermarket" add ons.

If you ever want help just sing out.

Ted.

Frank,
Lettering tracings were taken before I got on the project. So we have that plus we have painting info. Some areas are being left unfinished for now for paint match.

Ted,
I am singing!!! Having someone come volunteer on the project would be great!
We work on Saturdays.

Agreed the glassed in vestibule is ugly!!!! That is why I am hoping to find some pictures of what she looked like before the cosmetic surgery. There is a lot I can make out but I would like to confirm it all. The plan is to restore her ends to the original pattern. Of course this will depend on what I can get for photos or drawings.

Regards,
Scott K

Far be it from me to dictate to another museum how to manage their collection, but Scott, here is some food for thought.

The car, as is, is basically as it was withdrawn from service as a BRT car, complete with the glassed-in platforms. In other words, the car contains a significant amount of historical fabric as it is now. It is complete, has all of the parts, etc. You could very easily paint and restore the car as she was anytime after the glassed-in platforms were installed. By removing the glassed in portions, making new dash panels, and possibly guessing as to how it was configured, you would be making the car less original. Of course, some of these installations look pretty ugly, as they are not original to the car's design, or were often installed in haste to meet a deadline set by a local ordinance.

Glassed in platforms on formerly-open platform cars were usually mandated by law to provide motormen and conductors better working conditions. Some companies did not allow conductors to even wear gloves when handling the money, so you can imagine how miserable of a job this must have been, especially in a very bad winter.

Your museum already has several open-platofrm streetcars. Do you have another one with the aftermarket glassed-in platforms like this? If not, why don't you leave it as-is. It can be used as a teaching tool to tell a story of the often harsh working conditions encountered by street railway crews. It is a good demonstration of the sometimes tumultuous battle between street railway companies and the local governments.

Like I said, I'm not trying to dictate anything, but to bring up a possibility. From what I remember, the car is extraordinary in that it is complete, and in decent shape, a great example of a single truck streetcar from the turn of the last century. The end windows that overhang the platform may not be the most beautiful things, but they are original to the car, and tell a bit of the larger story. Railroad museums which are non-profits are educational organizations. Far beyond the "Hey look at that cool train/streetcar!" mentality. As such, museums should ask how their collections fit into the broader educational mission and story they are trying to convey to the public. Restoring everything to it's new, as-built appearance isn't always feasible, nor advisable.

Scott,

The glass dash is similar to the one installed on sweeper CTCo 010. These were installed in Washington, DC around 1905. We have a similar installation on DCTS 0522. One structural question - after all of these years will the bonnet structure stand alone without the extra support from the dash windows?

Wesley

This is a very close cousin...

http://www.davesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/brt29.htm

Ted.

Hey all of you are real helpful. I like that a lot!!!!!! Thanks!!!

Wesley like I said I am a steam guy,I don't know what a CTCo010 is. Do you have a picture or a link? And yes the bonnet is sound.

Dave interesting argument for keeping the closed in vestibule. Will have to mull that over.

Ted thanks for the photo! There are several cars there that are similiar to 169. Love the little bit of gingerbread on 179.

One thing I am curious about. Inside the window frames car#169 is stamped in to the wood. #2554 is also stamped in to the wood. When were the numbers changed and why? Also was Nassau Electric a paper only company? There are NERR markings but they are small.

Thanks again,
Scott K

Scott,

CTCo 010 is a Washington, DC snow sweeper at Connecticut Trolley Museum where you are working on the Brooklyn car.

Wesley

An open platform snow sweeper. That must have been especially miserable to operate.

I seen images of those guys. They looked like bears in those huge fur coats and boots. I am thankful that they were forced to enclose the operators area/ vestibule, but they, as trolley Co.s are known for, did it as cheap and ugly as possible.

The difference in numbers could be that the windows may have been replaced. the car IIRC, was also sand car #69?? and in the vestibule facing the shop doors, there was another number also.

Ted.

I don't know anything about the car in question, but a lot of car builders stamped the ORDER NUMBER on the loose parts so they all came back together after finishing. If it doesn't make any sense as the car number, it may be the builder's lot number.

I believe the 169 is a St. Louis Car Company product.

Washington University in St. Louis has the SLCC archives:

http://library.wustl.edu/units/spec/arc ... mpany.html

You may wish to check with them regarding information they have about this particular order. They may even have a builder's photo or two.

I checked in From Horsecars to Streamliners, which has a tabulation of St. Louis Car job numbers, and 2554 was shown as "not used".

Several of the streetcars here at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum have multiple numbers on the window frames. As the cars were re-numbered, the new car number would be stamped into the frames so as to keep track of which frames belonged to which car. Many times the frames, while "mass produced", had to be trimmed just slightly to fit into a specific window opening. Thus, you will sometimes find not only one or more car numbers, but also a window opening number. Many of the carbody posts will have a number as well - #1 through ...

Dave Crow