Just received ex-Amtrak 5668/nee-NYC 2950 Budd coach at our museum. It is relatively intact, but there is extensive water damage to the non-metal items inside the car (window ledges, wall coverings, etc). It is more than obvious that the roof and windows leak. This is our first Budd car... our knowledge base here is weak.

First off, I don't even know what questions to actually ask... but I will try.
Is leaking a normal thing?
Where do leaks on these cars come from? -it is covered in fluting...
Did these cars leak in regular RR service, and if so, what was done to fix.
What do other owners of these cars do today to fix?
What should we all be looking for as far as water, rot, maintenance, etc?
What questions like this should I be asking that I am too ignorant to ask right now?

Also, I have been unsuccessful finding out what this car or one of its contemporaries looked like inside while in service on the Central --- color schemes, upholstery type & colors. What was changed from NYC to Amtrak service? The interior clearly demonstrates Amtrak...blue carpet cloth on the walls and ceiling, blue/red variegated carpet, etc. Those colors are 100% match to our dining car "Lake Wenatchee" (ex-Amtrak 8088).

If anyone has experience w/ these cars please send back some answers and/or guidance. I don't care if responses are here on RYPN or back to my e-mail.

THANK YOU!

rayg

A few thoughts, and I'm sure others can expand on this:

1) Post war Budd cars can be broken down into 2 basic designs. From '46 to around '50 they were truss cars with no solid side sheet, just fluting over the truss work. From '50 on they were girder cars with a solid side sheet similar to P-S or ACF construction. Your's is a truss car and they do tend to leak more than a girder car.

2) Our experience is that the roof seldom leaks unless damaged. Most of the NYC Budds I've seen seem to have lived a hard life -- go figure. A careful inspection of the roof (on hands and knees, on the roof, longer than 30 seconds) should turn up any seams that are having problems. Polyurethane, not silicone caulk. Make sure you're not confusing letterboard leaks for roof leaks. If the letterboard has been removed or replaced or is missing screws or is missing trim, you most likely have holes.

3) Pier panels and fluting on the truss cars will leak. The good news is that the pier panels on truss cars are replacable. On girder cars, not so much. I have seen a lot of discreet caulking work done to help.

4) I'm reasonably sure that the NYC cars had Hunter Sash Windows. These suck, water and otherwise. We have worked hard to replace with the Adlake product where possible. TVRM is making the gaskets for the Hunter product and that will help, but still not my favorite system.

5) The good news is that unless you wreck it or burn it, you can't kill it. It may leak and I'm sure with some TLC you can improve that, but structurally they are usually a pretty tough.

What group are you with and do you have a few Pix of the car?

ETA

The openable windows are probably not helping the leak situation.

http://www.morscher.com/rr/2006/20060813_06.jpg

ETA

That's that car! Based on the environs, it seems that picture is at least 5 or 6 years old, in Jefferson, Ohio (east of Cleveland).

Car is now at Lake Shore Railway Museum/Lake Shore Railway Historical Society, North East, PA. Car was owned by a deceased member. His widow donated. We finally got car moved in a car swap deal.

Image from one week ago:

Inside of car the night it arrived. I do not know the history of the 'school bus windows' -- I think the AC unit failed and the cheaper thing to do was install the goofy windows.



We've spent about 40 volunteers hours cleaning the inside of the car so far and have upgraded its status from disgusting to just filthy. Lots more to do/will be done-- as long as the weather holds...

rayg

Ray, I'd advise checking the area around those bus windows. Having some experince with them in their intended application (due to my mother's time with Laidlaw and then Varney's Garage operating the school busses) has shown that they can't stay water-tight under heavy use for very long. Chances are that's why almost all of them use some imitation leather or vinyl for the seat upholstery. Basically, the mechanism falls appart and the windows will jam. I'd wager that a handful must have jammed open just enough to allow water into the coach. Best bet, in my mind, is to pull them and put some plexiglass in as a stop-gap until proper windows can be installed.