On 12-01-12 The Toledo, Lake Erie & Western Railway, Inc. (Bluebird) ended all operations in Waterville, Ohio. By orders of the NS, The Bluebird removed all equipment from the tracks of N S. there. The Bluebird operated tourist passenger train service there for many years. We were sadden a few weeks ago to find out that our lease will be terminated. It doesn't look likely that we will be returning as a short line has taken over the lease. The Bluebird will continue service soon as we can get our track backup and in operating condition. You may visit our site at www.tlew.org We are also on the youtube video and Facebook. We welcome any and all donations be it monies or equipment to get back us back in operating condition.

There are some important questions to ask here, but I will concentrate on just one right now. What is going to be the fate of the neat little depot there at Waterville? I believe it is a former Nickel Plate depot.

Les

When I was out there last about a decade ago the train ran from Grand Rapids across the bridge to a location short of Waterville, then returned. I guess the Bluebird is going to resume that schedule now?

The depot will stay for as long as the short freight RR is around. They wll be using it.

If the track can get back up to class 1 our passenger trains will operate. Like most tourist RR's there is not enough money to get anything done in short order. If and when we do start operations trips will start. Right now I believe it is 4 miles or about half way this is unofficial. I understand you must have one good tie every fourth tie. To get into the town of Grand Rapids, Ohio we must have crossing replaced, a new curvert put in plus bridge work.

According to the Toledo news a few months back, the entire line was leased by a company called Midwest Rail. The report also mentioned the engine was leased as well. I am a little confused.

Hot Metal - Can't currently be done. As hinted at by "railroad" in his posting, bridge work needs to be done. As I remembered my long ago ride on the TLE&W, the town of Grand Rapids, Ohio is a short ride from the bridge. Without the bridge in service, the ride would have to be from Grand Rapids TO to the bridge. Or from OUTSIDE Waterville TO the bridge with really no "end points". This is of course, providing that track repairs as "railroad" mentioned, can be made.

Les

You are all correct. The engine will be back in Waterville, but not by TLE&W crew. This was the last train for The Blubird in Waterville. Who knows what could happen with time. Track is not up to standards to operate passenger trains. Freight trains can operate as long as they stay on the rails. If we were to operate to day we could only do 3/4 mile mile. Track is being used for car storage. A curvert a crossing and bridge repair need completed. Track was leased, unofficial the loco is also, as I did not see the final lease.

Railroad, You mentioned that NS terminated the lease and all operations in Waterville were ended by orders of NS and that Bluebird removed all equipment from the tracks of NS there.

Doe's the T L E & W Ry. Inc. / Bluebird own any of the track on that line that the train even operated on? I have only been up there once probably a good 15 years ago on a day when the train was not running.I remember seeing the depot Les mentioned with the diesel and some coaches nearby,and further down the line some cabooses were stored by a grain elevator near the big bridge over the river and at the far end of the line where it stopped there was a few coaches and a steam loco that were stored.

I guess i'm confused as well as to what exactly happened? Is NS going to let you even get the track back in shape then renew the lease? Where did the Bluebird move all their equipment to?

I believe that the TLE&W's track ownership ends just outside Waterville, and had some arrangement with the NS to operate the last few hundred feet to the Waterville station.

Really, I think it is time that the TLE&W board of directors reevaluate the mission of the organization and make an honest assessment of the situation. From my one visit back in 2002, what was most interesting was the bridge and crossing the river, then it was sheer boredom as we trundled slowly alongside some fields, then stopped and returned to Grand Rapids. What is the purpose of the train ride through the fields? Certainly it cannot be considered scenic.

They have a steam locomotive, a centercab locomotive, two or three cabooses, two Alcos and a few boxcars. Certainly the makings already of a modest railroad museum. Why not remake the operation into more of a static rail museum with a short train ride out to the bridge and back? Start the bridge repairs at the Grand Rapids end and as each span is returned to class 1 standards, the train could venture that far out over the river.

I really do not see a reason to ever run the tourist train through the fields to Waterville again. Maintaining all that track is too much for this organization to handle. Keep renting it out for car storage and use those funds to improve the appearance of the equipment and track in Grand Rapids. Its time to shrink to a size that can be sustained.

Running in the middle of fields is part of the fact, jack. Railroading in the Ohio area , open fields. IRM has to stop short of a creek, making a bridge would extend its line greatly...you know, rights, finances, etc technicalities.
You may be able to drop some picnic tables near the bridge, the conductor give infomative talks etc, makes it more entertaining. Just have to run ideas around what to do.
Just remind them NS is running steam trips, nudge them to run them near you...

I think its good the line is getting real traffic.

This is true about the view. NW Ohio is known for that. We are located on the Cloverleaf of the ole NKP. I have been on tourist RR that you don't even see that, now that the new 4 lane Ohio US 24 (Fort to Port) is in we can see traffic and they can see us.

TLEW does own 10 miles free and clear, but again, as always, money is the big issue and yes I agree we have to much track to maintain.

The culvert alone would take $20,000 + to start this project. We have tried local contractors here. Work like this should be done by a certified contractor.

Don't get too far down in the dumps about the 4 miles of accessible track, and the high cost of the culvert and other work.

Some basic amount of fund raising can be done to get the track, 8 feet at a time, up to Class 1 condition. As soon as you have a mile or two, you can probably start with train operations again. It's mostly railfans who like a long ride, but normal passengers like Special Events, and two miles is plenty for that.

You won't be the first, or the last, excursion train who rolled up to the brink of failure, and backed away from it again.

James

Wow, a misconception about the FRA regulations within 100 miles of Detroit. What are the chances? *snark*LOL!

In MMO fantasy games, you play with other people, having your characters fight difficult creatures. Many of them throw fire, poison etc. at your feet, and you must be mindful to step out of it. We call that "don't stand in the poo". I am using it as a metaphor.

Pretend that every revenue freight car (handled for a paying third party, not for you yourselves) is dripping "poo". Everywhere there's poo on the railroad is called "The General System Of Transportation". If your operation "stays out of the poo", then about 80% of the FRA regs go away completely. That includes part 213, which defines "class 1 track". When I say "go away completely" I mean the FRA man will still come, but should merely want to see that you have SOME method for inspecting and repairing, e.g. track. Once he sees that you are not totally incompetent, he should leave.

If you want to willfully comply with Part 213 anyway, have fun with that but you shouldn't prioritize it above the health of your organization.


As always, the answer is "just run". Run anything, but get out there and be relevant to the public and get revenue streaming in and get that 33% public support that the IRS requires to keep your tax status. The speeders are fine for now. Just make sure you're out there every Saturday (or Sunday as suits you), as that puts you ahead of other area organizations that run crazy hopscotch schedules that confuse the public and are difficult to market.


*cough cough* that's a familiar and noxious smell. Midwestern naysaying! I doubt the $20,000 number, and as for the certified contractor, he may need to oversee but he certainly does not need to "do the doing". Perhaps if you are gods of fundraising and it takes less volunteer hours to fundraise than to DIY... but most midwestern folks I know are handier with a bobcat than an "ask". Get over that bad opinion and get er done. If that makes sense. If not, say with pride that you are not doing it yet because it does not make sense for your organization.


QFT!!!

Orange Empire is 2 miles. B&O Museum is 1.2 miles. Seashore is 1.5 miles. Strasburg is 3.4 miles. TVRM is 2.8. CSRM has 6 or 7 miles available and I think they run 2 just by choice. These are giants of railway preservation, with professional managements, who entertain hundreds of thousands of people, and charge a heck of a lot higher ticket price than you. You should be lucky if anyone from any of those museums returns your phone calls. You certainly should not stick your nose in the air higher than them. That is shameful hubris. People want to ride a train and have a fun experience. There are many ways to increase the fun, but "adding miles" is not particularly productive. Thinking you need a long run (or God help you, to "run it all") that is foamer thinking. Foamers don't pay the mortgage.

Great example. The Thomas the Tank Engine program requires a 25 minute ride exactly - which is professionally engineered to fit the attention span of the average Thomas fan. A railroad museum recently ran a Santa Train, and chose endpoints which made it the longest trip (by time) that they offer - over an hour each way. With the stop to see Santa, it was a 3+ hour odyssey, so long they could only run 1 trip a day. Now, if you're a parent you can guess how that went. Very full train of very bored kids. Had they had made it a 15 minute out-n-back, they could have done <hourly turns, overlapped the trips, so while a group is seeing Santa they're getting another load. Hauled in a lot more money with less crowding and about the same crew day. You can't afford to have mental boxes. You have to be willing to be radical.

Speeders too... 15 minutes each way on a speeder = fun. An hour each way = not fun. And speeders don't have limitations like bridges and culverts.


Not even in that neighborhood LOL.

This is what I am most curious about! The line had been LEASED a few months ago to Midwest Rail? That would imply there had either not been a pre-existing lease or it expired and was not renewed. Which was it?


Cheers, Jason

Yes, it would be nice if someone was on here who knows what is going on over there.