Yes there was a lease several week before, but not all subjects were on the table, such as lease being canceled and taken over by the other party.

And yes you are talking to the one who knows what is going on. If you would like to know more were on facebook please ask your personal questions there through the info@ address.

I did some research and asked some questions and found the truth. First a Surface Transportation Board ruling granted the Toledo, Lake Erie and Western Railway Company common carrier status. The TLE&W, its right of way, and equipment, is controlled by Midwest Rail LLC under a lease agreement with the Toledo Lake Erie and Western Railway MUSEUM. The lease between the TLE&W Museum and Midwest Rail LLC, DBA,Toledo Lake Erie and Western Railway (not the museum) includes about 10 miles of track. Another 1.8 miles of track was leased from NS by Midwest Rail LLC.

From these findings, I would say the museum was told by NS to remove museum owned properties. I gather from what I have read here and on other sites, the museum did not involve Midwest Rail in the movement. I hope that is not the case. If it is, the museum would have violated several regulations listed in 49 CFR section 200 covering railroads. Penalties for these violations include rather substantial fines. It appears the museum has no idea that the railroad name as far as the legal system is concerned is controlled by Midwest Rail LLC. Anyone out there commenting on behalf of the TLE&W that is not from Midwest Rail LLC should probably be very careful in this area. Posting info that may not be 100% accurate is harmful to both groups and could potentially affect both parties in a negative way. Just an attorneys 2 cents.

Nonprofit heritage railroads aren't doing real well in that region. As such, railfans tend to focus on freight, where they see a lot of apparent success. This leads to a mentality of "Let's run freight, THAT at least is successful."

But that is a sampling bias, because they are looking only at the shortlines which are successful, and ignoring all the ones that failed (remember that list I said to make?) In their case, there's been no freight service for decades, so there are no captive shippers, and many more industries have closed since the freight railroad got out (and the shortlines all took a pass). So they are stuck undercutting trucks. Worse, entering the "general system" makes running passenger trains (with their stock) impossible - killing their only high-margin source of revenue.

Generally, these museums are trying to solve the wrong problem. The real problem is lack of development. A nonprofit industry word, this means fundraising and promotion. Most railfans suck at that, and so their passenger service suffers.

I don't quite understand what is going on at TLE&W. Structurally, what they're doing sounds kinda strange. Operationally it seems pretty reasonable - use the east end for car storage and freight, and run passengers on the west side. Draw a "line in the sand" at the right place and call the east in the general system and the west not. That is viable.


I doubt that. The TLE&W leased track has historically been not part of the general system. It is highly debatable whether mere car storage places track in the general system. Congress requires FRA to treat tourist railways lightly (49 USC 20103), so on a wobbler they must favor the tourist railway. As such, I just don't see FRA caring about a one-time evacuation move over track historically not part of the general system.

Who is Midwest Rail? Are the principals connected to the museum in any way or are they outsiders? Did the museum lease everything to Midwest including the equipment and trackage on the other side of the bridge? And is the museum making any money off the lease?

I would also be curious as to what is Midwest Rail's business plan? Is it purely car storage? The only online industry is a grain elevator at the bridge which hasn't shipped by rail in years.

No offense "railroad" but your posts seem to be written from the perspective of someone who doesn't quite have the entire story as to what is going on here.

Yes Jason there was a on going lease. It was valid very year as long as it was paid and it was. It's better off to purchase, tried but no luck.

Hot Metal yes you have the right one, sorry I don't have that much time to go into that much detail, sometime leaking too much info can be damaging. Sorry I don't have the time to sit behind the computer all day. There is a RR to look after.

Well at the end of the day, TLE&W (museum) owns the railroad, and that is huge.

I see no freight customers except the grain elevator and I hear they are not interested. As such I expect commercial business will be car storage for the foreseeable future. That is perfectly good business and I wish other museums did it where practicable. I think misunderstandings about "general system" deter many of them.

The $600 question is whether track goes into the general system simply because of storing empty cars on it. Based on my observations, I think it does not. I base that on UP track storage in Mountain House, Acampo and Cannon. The track was "out of service" and car storage did not put the track into the general system as far as I can tell.
My read of 49 CFR 209 Appendix A. suggests track which has no purpose but storage would not be engaged in commerce. Either way, track not actually used for storing cars is definitely not in the general system, so again, TLE&W (museum) could draw a "line in the sand" just west of the last stored car, and operate under FRA-Lite rules as they have in the past. I presume that they have a relationship with TLE&W (freight) such that they could negotiate that.

I expect the passenger train could operate out of its parking location, which is quite close to an exit off the new freeway. Even if the elevator took cars and operations were relegated to west of it, the remaining mile and a half is far-and-away the prettiest part of the railroad and it goes right through downtown Grand Rapids (with a very touristy downtown). Speeders can probably traverse the bad culvert that trains cannot. All the right ingredients are there to do a tidy business with the tourists.

This thread is a lost cause. If the one fellow who purports to know what is going on will not answer just a few simple questions, why are we here trying to figure it out? Apparently they don't want or need any help. Go take care of your railroad...

Well some things just never change or go away. It looks like Midwest Rail llc was not only forced off the TLE&W Line by the State of Ohio for let's just call it Not Following The State of Ohio's laws concerning not for profit organizations amongst other things. But they have now been kicked out of Leipsic according to City Officials for doing as they please and not what was expected of them including never signing a lease on the trackage! They have been told to get their locomotive off the tracks there since they never had a legal right to even store it there. The MWRX GP Locomotive is currently on the internet "For Sale". When will this Midwest Rail llc company finally figure it out? I think they should rename the company: GYPSE Rail llc. Lol

We had a culvert that had failed and was left go for years by previous management. The pipe was intact but 15 feet below the track. One side of the embankment fill had sloughed off/scoured away. One rail was hanging in the air, it was getting scary to even take a speeder across. We had several contractors bid the job. They all turned it into a major project over $10,000. We decided to do it ourselves and built a gabion wall. Rented a small excavator from the local Sunbelt depot, dug it down to a level, wide and stable bench, and placed the gabion gaskets. Hauled the gabion stone up the track with a motorcar and flatcar, and used the excavator to help fill the baskets. Wired the baskets together by hand with some heavy pliers. Backfilled the void behind the baskets, added ballast stone, new ties and replaced the track. Seeded the surrounding area with grass. Now a year later it is a great spot to cross over, no settling or movement of the baskets, and the whole area is clean and green. Cost was maybe $2,000, and took four weekends of volunteer work with crews ranging from 8 to 2 in size.

We've run speeder excursions from 2008 until now. (Some 2 miles and some over the whole 7.4 mile line) The two mile runs are usually adequate for the average family with kids. We do get requests to run the whole line from railfans and etc and do so on occasion. Just got our "big train" running again on about a mile of track. (Plymouth loco and caboose...the first coach of four will be restored and back in service next year.) The speeders kept up the operating tradition, crews trained and familiar with the line, the locals still saw activity and didn't think the line was abandoned (well, some of them, at least....) and kept up a local media presence as well as keeping us alive with some revenue coming in. While not quite "prosperous" yet, we're in much better shape than we were a year ago, and much. much better shape than in 2008.

We're definitely in the "each tie installed lengthens the run by a few more feet" mental state and hopefully will have the whole railroad back up to class I standards in a couple of years. Finding and bringing in some "new blood" has been a key to progress.....both people who want to pound spikes and paint coaches as well as folks who are willing to support us financially.

Fortunately we do not have bridge problems, just some regular cleaning and painting and some new ties are needed. Tie replacement and ditching for drainage are needed on the whole line. We did keep up with vegetation control, and the weeds are pretty well gone, but there will have to be some logging of the larger trees overhanging the track along some good stretches.

One step at a time and keep pushing on!!

I recall there being Alco (ex-C&O) and Whitcomb (ex-Ann Arbor) locomotives on the TLE&W property that were operable, but not a Plymouth. Is this a new addition?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe faimontdave is referring to the Stewartstown Railroad.

I questions his affiliation with the TLE&W, with his profile location in Pennsylvania, but no other railroad name was given, and this is a TLE&W threads, so I just assumed...