Dave, I don't disagree with you -sending you a PM :)

Stephen

And still we wait, while 470 quietly rusts more, and more vandals hang out and do drugs in and around her. Last trip through Waterville at night I drove up to 470, bunch of punks around it, rap music going, no police anywhere...no good can come of it sitting there anymore.

Six proposals were listened to by the City, and several given further review. At least one of those proposals will merit further study. The City is reluctant to part with the locomotive, but has expressed a desire to see it refurbished or restored to operation in the future. It was stated in the review meetings that the City will not release the locomotive to anyone who would part it out or otherwise scrap it.
I think this shows some steps forward that have not been seen since 2004. Expect a decision on behalf of the locomotive sometime during early 2013.
Really, that is all that can be said for right now. As the City reviews its options, plans can and may be changed. It remains Waterville's property and in their hands until a custodian is determined.

It would seem to have it actually restored to operational condition the only real option would be to send it out of state. Did any of you see that NEW state of the art roundhouse in this month's TRAINS, built like an old one in Ohio ? That shop is set up to handle ANY kind of repair/ restoration. Nobody in Maine has a facility like that [ Eastern Maine has a roundhouse but I am not sure if it is capable of heavy repair, Downeast Scenic does not have such a facility, nor does Boothbay to my knowledge ]. Ideally, at this point if it was restored and operational maybe we could hope for a repeat of the "last run" done from Portland to Bangor [ although there is not much of a place for a train to "go" in Bangor now. If restored out of state with periodic appearances in Maine [ If Pan Am would allow it ] would be better than not seeing it at all or it getting self destroyed sitting any longer in Waterville where the city obviously has no funds to repair it nor the desire to protect it anymore.

Does anyone on here have knowledge of any other facility that has the capability of such a restoration ? Anywhere in Mass. have this ability ? I know Strassburg does but I doubt they want it because they already have more than they can chew now.

If it ends up on static display then I hope it DOES stay here in Maine and is displayed INSIDE away from the elements and vandals. A grand old engine like 470 deserves better than she has got !

On the east coast, the only facilities I know of that could handle a restoration of that size would be Age of Steam (which you mentioned, and with the way JJJ operates, I'll be amazed if it doesn't go there), Steamtown in Scranton, PA, Strasburg, and Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum's Soule Shops. Of those 4, I could see it ending up at Age of Steam or TVRM. I feel like a heavy 4-6-2 would be a bit much for Strasburg's 4 1/2 mile track, and Steamtown currently has two engines under restoration and a 3rd waiting in the wings. However, something tells me TVRM wouldn't take it and if JJJ got it, it would enter a long line of engines he wants to restore (he owns 12, 4 or 5 are considered operational and only 2 or 3 are legally able to operate).

Bottom line, I don't see any of the major facilities taking it on, and that's not a bad thing. As we've seen many times, you don't need a huge shop facility to restore a large locomotive (think NKP 756)

Mark, are you sure that it's 756? Last I checked it is serving in an able capacity as my the body for my car....

There are places in New England to do it. Don't just think in the context of steam, but of heavy repair shops where she could be taken. Just off the top of my head there are heavy repair facilities in Waterville (Scam Am), St. Albans (G&W) and Derby (M&A). Then you can also look at places where the work could be done (with the knowledge that like the 765 you don't need a heavy shop to do a restoration) such as Rockland (M&E), Elsworth (DSRR), and Bartlett (CSRX) to name just a few. There are plenty of places in New England to have a steam program.....but no engines to have one with.

Let's not forget the fine job the CNJ 113 guys have done with no facilities whatsoever!

There is a group in Maine that is interested in a total rebuild, using the contracted services of a major name in steam restoration. I am really sorry to leave it like that, but the whole story will be available in the next eight weeks or so. In the meantime, it is possible she might yet go out of state, but that is not the plan talked about by the City of Waterville. Their current design is to keep her from being taken apart and then forgotten. This is a good thing, in my estimation. Nobody needs another rusting boiler off her frame and parts scattered about thither and yon. This current plan gets her under cover until an agreement is reached with some responsible custodial committee.

BTW, don't limit your thinking to "There is no place to run her", cause it ain't so.

1. Roundhouses are maintenance facilities, backshops handled heavy rebuilds. You can stick your backshop in part of your roundhouse, but it's still the backshop.
2. She's a very good size for regional and larger tourist service.
3. There are at leat 20 capable facilities with staffs that COULD handle this project if it was their priority in this country alone. There are other groups without a dedicated facility that could either contract the job or do it like the 113 project. I don't know how many shops in the Canadian maritimes - not far from Maine - might be capable or interested as well.

Eagerly anticipating good news from Richard. It's about time.

dave

I only hope it's as good as we all wish. If the City of Waterville chooses to endorse a restoration program, it should be good news. If they choose to leave her under a roof without sides, or a very temporary shelter, it may not turn out as well. The first positive in this whole story is they do not want to see her disassembled or destroyed and they're making an effort to insure she won't be.

I, too, think there could be a market for a traveling regional steam engine like 470. Every line from NECR to SL&A to MM&A, P&W, Conway Scenic and even Pan Am could support the occasional operation of an engine like this. It's really hard to tell how receptive the regional and shortlines in New England might be to an operating 470 as the region has never really had an opportunity like this to turn down since the days of Steamtown's offline ventures 4 decades ago.

FWIW, the MM&A's Derby Shops do a lot of heavy contract rebuild work on diesel power. Also saw a snippet in a local New England transportation publication about a certain King of Steam being close to announcing a "Green" locomotive project in the next few weeks. The project was not identified as steam-related but the person connected with it sure is! Could be an interesting next couple of months here in New England as more information comes forth.

Rob Gardner

There was talk on another site of a group in Maine trying to do something with the 501 sitting in Conway, would it be the same group?

The idea of a well groomed, mainline passenger steam locomotive in New England, is at the heart of the 470 effort. She'd be an elegant locomotive to operate during the summer, especially along the coast. Mind you, no agreements have been made between parties. No need to until 470 is running, or close to it. One step at a time.

BTW, I am looking for a clear photograph of 470's backhead either during her service years, or immediately after retirement. I'm told there is a published picture of 469's, but I've yet to see it. You help would be appreciated. Today, 470's backhead is stripped.

501 is being reviewed as a possible candidate for shopping.

Richard, right you are. Here is hoping that she stays in New England and some day gets to "grace the rails" from Waterville to Mechanicville to St. Albans!

Rob Gardner