Yeah, there's no chance of any GG1 ever running again, becoz they're all electercull and stuff.


And I want it plinthed with a bit of catenary above its head and its pantagraph up, and an audio-recognition computer that every time it hears the words "never run again", it cycles the compressor on.

I love it!!!

Personally I find that restoring a piece of electrical equipment to operation, even including a retrofit to be much more of a mainstream activity than restoring steam equipment. It would be an interesting subject for someone with some practical knowledge on electrical control systems to ponder. There probably is some AC control equipment over at the RG Steel Sparrows Point plant that would work perfectly, as some of that equipment is 25 cycles. But that is perhaps a discussion for a GG1 that is in a little better shape. I think that most of us would be happy with just some cosmetic repair work on 4876 right now.

No Alex you do NOT need to respond to this post. We have heard it from you a million times. Save your breath! Bang your head in private.

That party's representative/liaison "lurks" here. I'll let him PM me if he has any update.

The proposal in question was going to have to be spread out financially over several years, as originally discussed. I have neither positive nor negative updates to hint about at this time.

I think we may also still be in some kind of arguments as to whether (and how) the darned thing can get out of Baltimore and CSX trackage to another railroad's trackage. It could get ugly enough to involve the conditions of trackage rights of one railroad over another's trackage. And who asks who for the extra-special favors?

(Amazingly enough, for all the trackage in Baltimore, it's an incredibly difficult, if not impossible, proposition to get something like that from CSX at B&O Museum to, say, Amtrak or NS.)

Fine.

Go find it and buy it, and the railroad, and string the catenary. Go on. Nobody's stopping you these days. Hell, you could probably get a "green energy" tax credit and Lord knows how many other "perks" from the politicians desperate to get that mess redeveloped.

And after you buy the railroad, I have someone who wants one of the SW1's and another that wants one of the other switchers.

Ho, ho, ho!! I like that, even if it is very unlikely one will ever run, even if the odds against it are greater than those for steam on CSX. . .

As Ross likes to say, "Hope springs eternal. . ."

Alex,
What is it with you and the negative comments all day long every day? Do you really have to bite the head off every single person who dares post something on this forum? Even after I asked you NOT to respond to that post because we all know what you will say, then you did it anyways!

I really think that it is your negative attitude that has really done this forum great harm. who wants to dare discuss anything here if all we get in return is your snide remarks on everything? How many people have left RYPN over the years because of your attitude?

Hi there - My name is Pablo Maurer. I wrote the piece on DCist that was linked to earlier in the thread - in case you missed it, here's a link: http://dcist.com/2013/01/post_55.php -

Wanted to clarify a few things. First of all, in regards to the comments from Dave Shackleford at the B&O - Here's the text of the relevant portion of my interview with him. I don't think he was being callous or acting like he doesn't care about the fate of the 4876, I just think the museum doesn't have the resources to fix up a loco that was never associated with the B&O. Anyways, for reference:

Me: How & when did the museum come into ownership of the GG1? I noticed some stenciled text on the side of the cab that said that it had been donated by the state of NJ as part of the "York Project" - do you have any further details on this?

Dave: Back in the late 1980s the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey had several retired GG-1s set aside for eventual display. The group was seeking to find a home closer to Washington DC and had contacted the Smithsonian and Amtrak to try and find a fitting place to do so. The Smithsonian did not have the storage space and efforts to display it at the Washington Terminal were not successful and it was recommended that the B&O Museum be considered. This was finalized in late summer, 1992.

Concerning the "York Project," several years ago the museum was working with a group from York, PA who wanted to move the car to York and restore it; however, this did not pan out. The stenciling on the side was premature and the GG-1 is still part of the museum's collection.


Me: Does the museum have any plans to cosmetically and/or mechanically restore the locomotive? Where would you say the GG-1 sits on the B&O's list of priorities?

Dave: There are no plans to restore the 4876 or open it to the public in the near future. The current status of the GG-1 is based upon our restoration priorities. The shop is currently at capacity and our efforts have been focused on restoring the locomotives and rolling stock damaged in the roundhouse roof collapse of 2003, and then will be focusing on equipment that is more significant to the mission of the Museum. Also factoring into the decision is the fact that there are several representative examples of the GG-1 in other railroad Museums in the region (I believe there are 16 in existence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_GG1).


Me: If not, is the museum seeking a buyer who would be interested in restoring her?

Dave: The museum is not actively seeking a buyer or another home for the GG-1. If there was an organization interested in acquiring and restoring the locomotive the museum would carefully examine it for consideration. The reality is any group would need to understand the costs involved including a significant cost to move it and a very expensive restoration.[/quote]

In regards to Zell's comments as I was leaving (telling me that I should see the riveted-body GG1 instead of the 4876, etc) he was in no way dismissing the 4876 as a piece of garbage or something - he was only saying that there are far better examples out there.

The current state of the 4876 is depressing to say the least. While it was a pleasure to view her/explore the interior of that loco, I hope someone scoops it up before long - it seems to be rapidly, rapidly deteriorating these days. I wrote the piece because I have a particular affection for the GG1 - I grew up in Philly and took my first ride (at age 3) on a GG1 the year before its retirement. I actually spent most of today up in Strasburg viewing "old rivets," as Zell suggested. The museum guide who took me out to see her (the yard was closed) told me the museum is seeking a donor to properly restore that locomotive - she also told me a humorous story about the removal of the transformers in that engine... how the museum staff wasn't allowed anywhere near the loco for several days but one restoration employee claimed that "you could eat off the floor in that locomotive now." I wouldn't recommend that.

Hope you guys enjoyed the piece! Just wanted to post Dave's comments in full so there was no confusion.

It was a good piece of responsible journalism.

Far from being negative, I suggested that you go ahead with your proposal. And I have parties seriously ready to work with you to earn back some of your money, because they really DO want some locos out of the Sparrows Point "dead line." (I'm not 100% behind their ideas, but they're a little more grounded in reality than "let's put a GG1 that smashed into Union Station back on display at Union Station!")

If you or your friends can afford to acquire that 25Hz stuff out of Sparrows Point strictly for the speculation that it might be useful in getting a GG1 to move under "its own power," and that's what you want to spend it on, I certainly can't stop you. But should you come to me, my friends, or groups I'm with asking for donations, I'm going to ask some pretty darn tough questions first, because I have a fiduciary responsibility to my household's and groups' budgets first.

I'd LOVE to see a GG1 operate again. I'd also love world peace and a fiscally responsible U.S. government and free beer and doubleheaded PRR T1s on the Horse Shoe Curve. Hell, let's make ALL of that happen! Nothing's impossible except skiing through a revolving door while striking a match on a wet cake of soap.

Go ahead. It's all yours. Heck, I'll even see if the B&O Museum would turn over 4876 to you, if that's what you want. F.O.B. southwest Baltimore, of course.

As I predicted, I heard back from the "principal" of the other, more serious 4876 preservation proposal.

He reports that the idea is still alive, but moving "very slowly." The dour state of the economy in the region (still better than much of the rest of the country) means that unless a "sugar daddy" or other angel comes through with a large donation specifically for this proposal, I suspect it would be a couple years at best before this can move forward, even if the other stars align properly (more accurately the switch points).

The proposal involves moving the 4876 to a museum/preservation location in fairly close proximity to former PRR electrified territory. It fits their mission. The place in question hasn't said "no," but has said "we don't have money to do this now."

I do hope it gets saved. I am indifferent as to where it would be displayed though closest to where at ran makes the most sense. Close to DC would be nice too, given its infamous moment, but WUS is silly.

I hope the slow process described eventually leads to a good outcome for 4876. I point out once again that lowest cost option is to restore it and display it at the B&O Museum. I know they are not going to devote resources towards it but maybe if a sugar daddy did come along, his/her pockets would not have to be quite so deep if it didn't have to be moved.

Displaying her there IS within their posted mission statement. I posted this before and I see that in the meantime they have not made any changes by which this engine is not relevant to their mission. If someone financed or maybe even carried out the work and all they had to do is make a little room, maybe they'd take their mission statement seriously. But this is moot for now as no one has come along to write a big check.

http://www.borail.org/Mission-Statement ... useum.aspx

Steve

Having enough to do in the land of Pacific Electric, I'll leave it to others to deal with the GG-1. One aspect of any effort to move this motor prompted a look at "Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars", and finding that a GG1 weighs about 240 tons. Moving something this heavy if it can't be hauled on its own wheels puts it in the same league with a Space Shuttle. One should "never say never", but "highly unlikely" comes to mind.

"Why must you be so pessimistic and nay-saying, Bob? Do you have anger issues?? I swear, it's such negativity that drives people away from this forum!

Anyway, the answer is easy! Just take it apart like the did to get it out of Washington Union in 1953!You take the end trucks off, then the wheel frames come apart at the hinge in the middle, then you take the main body off and put it on a flat car....."

Just thought I'd get the inevitable response over with.

Aside from the space issues, I can understand Amtrak not wanting the monument to the worst accident ever at Union Station to be there every day as a reminder of the event.

I was kind of surprised to see that the US Airways A320 that survived the "Miracle on the Hudson" landing is going to be on display at the Carolina Aviation Museum in Charlotte, NC. I know that there are a few parts from the Sept. 11 planes set for display (and one already in the temporary museum at Ground Zero) but are there any other transportation disaster relics more or less intact on display anywhere in the US other than this A320?

I have a warm place in my heart for any GG-1 as well, but understand that money is the key to anything.

Just a thought to her and any piece awaiting restoration, can't we try to cover them in a way to help stem the effects of time? Maybe Ross can help a little here. 614 was covered the way they cover boats for storage. Using a shrink wrap type plastic. He can tell us how well she did under that protection and maybe some ballpark figures.

Protection from the elements is paramount. Keeping the rain out will go a long way.