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 Post subject: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
Here is your long awaited progress report on 4501.

Boiler - After further review, the team decided that an old patch on the exterior throat sheet needed to be replaced. The corresponding piece of internal throat sheet is being replaced as well. This will now give us 100% replacement of the mud ring rivets and 95% replacement of the firebox. There are two small areas below the rear tube back that managed to survive. They date back to the 1984 rebuild. Weld out of the 3rd course flush patch is still underway. We will still have boiler fittings to apply after the throat sheet work is complete. Both the inner and outer sheets are formed, prepped, and awaiting drilling of bolt and rivet holes. Tube installation will occur after we get some wheels back under the locomotive.

Machinery - The main crank pins were received and installed. This wheelset is now in the journal lathe getting the journals burnished and hubs machined out to the 55" back-to-back dimension. Then its to the quartering machine for final machining of the crank pins and crank pin hubs. Crown brass is being turned for the driving boxes. All the hangers have been rebushed. The lead truck has been disassembled and numerous problems uncovered. The truck frame was bent in two different directions and required straightening. The pedestal legs were worn beyond repair so replacements have been fabricated. The equalizers were also bent so they've been straightened. We're looking at replacement of the very tired coil springs.

Engineering - Our friends at the Southeastern Railway Museum have graciously given us access to drawings and files collected by the late William J, Purdie. So far, we have scanned over 400 Southern Railway steam locomotive drawings from both TVRM's and SERM's archives. In addition, I read letters that discussed increasing the diameter of the Ms Class (4501 is the first Ms Class) from 10 to 10.5 inches because the main axles were cracking. I found this most interesting since we found cracks in 4501's main axle and had to replace it. The repair was designed to work within the existing driving box which meant increasing the bore and thinning the crown brass. 4501 evidently never got this modification and we did not increase the axle diameter as the replacement had already been made. Boiler calculations are 98% complete with only the calcs for two existing patches to be added.

That's it for this update. Enjoy the pictures.


Attachments:
File comment: New inner and outer throat sheet plates
Replacement Inner and Outer Throat Sheets.jpg
Replacement Inner and Outer Throat Sheets.jpg [ 52.33 KiB | Viewed 13483 times ]
File comment: Driving boxes anxiously awaiting new crown brass
Boxes Awaiting Crown Brass.jpg
Boxes Awaiting Crown Brass.jpg [ 75.82 KiB | Viewed 13483 times ]
File comment: New crown brasses being turned prior to being pressed into the boxes
4501 Crown Brass being turned.jpg
4501 Crown Brass being turned.jpg [ 79.01 KiB | Viewed 13483 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
More pictures -


Attachments:
File comment: New crank pins awaiting installation
New Main Crank Pins.jpg
New Main Crank Pins.jpg [ 68.5 KiB | Viewed 13479 times ]
File comment: New crank pins installed in main driver
Main with Crank Pin Installed 2.jpg
Main with Crank Pin Installed 2.jpg [ 76.27 KiB | Viewed 13479 times ]
File comment: Hangers being refurbished
Hangers being Repaired.jpg
Hangers being Repaired.jpg [ 72.62 KiB | Viewed 13479 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
And still more pictures -


Attachments:
File comment: The lead truck after it exploded all over the shop floor
Exploded Lead Truck.jpg
Exploded Lead Truck.jpg [ 76.17 KiB | Viewed 13475 times ]
File comment: New pedestal legs for the lead truck
New Lead Truck Pedestal Leg.jpg
New Lead Truck Pedestal Leg.jpg [ 78.64 KiB | Viewed 13475 times ]
File comment: Lead truck frame on the milling machine. Note the areas that have been heated for straightening
Lead Truck Frame on Boring Mill 2.jpg
Lead Truck Frame on Boring Mill 2.jpg [ 71.65 KiB | Viewed 13475 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
Last set of pictures for today.


Attachments:
File comment: New dead hanger blocks being positioned for welding to the frame
Dead Hanger Replacement.jpg
Dead Hanger Replacement.jpg [ 71.71 KiB | Viewed 13470 times ]
File comment: Newly cast safety valve manifold and steam distribution manifold (aka the turret)
New Pop Valve Dome and Refurbished Turret.jpg
New Pop Valve Dome and Refurbished Turret.jpg [ 67.64 KiB | Viewed 13470 times ]
File comment: Equalizers with new bushings installed
Rebushed Equalizers.jpg
Rebushed Equalizers.jpg [ 74.7 KiB | Viewed 13470 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:06 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 135
A M A Z I N G.

She is going to run like new isn't she? Thanks for the pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
We are requesting domestic steel when we make purchases. I have not reviewed all the CMTR's (Certified Mill Test Report) to verify the source was a domestic mill. The one foreign manufactured item that will be on the locomotive is the feedwater heater system.

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:38 pm
Posts: 528
Location: New Jersey, Central
Mr Ray, Can you take a picture of the center pin for the pilot truck? I'm helping on DL&W 565 and we need to make a new one, ours was lost at some point. Just need to see how the flare is on the bottom.

Thank you in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm curious as to why the original dead hanger blocks were cut off the frame?

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
Good question. It appears that the dead block hangers were never part of the frame. We have yet to determine what kept them in position in the original construction. Later drawings show replacement frame sections with the dead blocks cast as part of the frame.

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:15 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Tue Aug 06, 2024 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
So I guess that means that the modification shown in the drawings was never carried out?

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
4501's dead blocks moved without having to jack up the locomotive. They will be welded to the frame now.

4501 did receive a new front frame section (heavier rails) but the center section where the dead blocks are located is still original.

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:35 pm
Posts: 374
Hi, Mark.

I am just askin.....just askin.

So, I too have worked on locomotives with what I have called floating dead blocks. Kelly mentions them too. Being that it is true that they are held in by gravity and to date, gravity has not failed us and owing to the fact that the blocks do move a bit even under load.....

Why weld them in? Seems to me that somebody figured out a long time ago that letting them float was the best option. Just askin......what is the primary reason for wanting to weld them in? I would be worried about having to watch that weld and inspect it. Left floating, out of sight, out of mind, right?

Just askin.....

JohnE.

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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
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John E. Rimmasch wrote:
Hi, Mark.
Why weld them in? Seems to me that somebody figured out a long time ago that letting them float was the best option. Just askin......what is the primary reason for wanting to weld them in? I would be worried about having to watch that weld and inspect it. Left floating, out of sight, out of mind, right?

Just askin.....

JohnE.


gmray wrote:
Good question. It appears that the dead block hangers were never part of the frame. We have yet to determine what kept them in position in the original construction. Later drawings show replacement frame sections with the dead blocks cast as part of the frame.


John,

Hopefully Gary can elaborate on the subject, but it seems Southern found a use/need for casting the dead block hangers integral with the frame. Perhaps this is TVRM's reasoning for welding them? Truthfully, whether they're welded or cast, that shouldn't matter as far as their inspection frequency.

My $0.02 anyway...

DC


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 Post subject: Re: 4501 Update 02-11-13
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 382
John E. Rimmasch wrote:
Hi, Mark.

Why weld them in? Seems to me that somebody figured out a long time ago that letting them float was the best option. Just askin......what is the primary reason for wanting to weld them in? I would be worried about having to watch that weld and inspect it. Left floating, out of sight, out of mind, right?

JohnE.


Hmmm, the best option?

I've struggled to find the advantages in the dead blocks not being part of the frame. 4501's had moved closer to each other which means the hangers were not longer vertical. The made the effective length of the hangers shorter compared to the one connected to the equalizer. It also created a horizontal force which would cause it to continue to move. The stress on the weld is easily calculated and is less than half the allowable even when considering a dynamic load factor of 3. I am not going to worry over it.

Southern's later M Class locomotives had integral dead blocks. I chalk the "floating" dead blocks up to someone who thought they had a good idea but it just didn't work out too well. I also include the Hodges trailing truck in that same category. This could be a thread of its own, ideas for steam locomotives that just didn't work out. Would compounding top the list? Hmmm, the N&W proved it could work :-)

The K Class locomotives had integral dead blocks and they predate the M Class.

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