Roundhouses in Minnesota

HudsonL · **Joined:** Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am **Posts:** 548

I believe Wabasha is a Warehouse (Mini-Storage?)

End-O-Line is a RR Museum.

http://www.endoline.com/site/index.php

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:28 pm

Dennis Storzek wrote:

I donno... Summertime in Proctor is two afternoons in August when the Eskimos air their igloos out. Not sure excessive solar gain is that much of a problem, especially if the sawtooth sash were originally open-able.

Speaking as a San Franciscan, that sounds pretty nice.

Bobharbison wrote:

I'm sure the intent was the usual for that design, let in lots of light. As noted, hot summer days aren't as much of an issue there. Also, keep in mind that you're talking about a building with large vents above every track and really large doors that can easily be opened. I think that if they open a few of the big doors, maybe some of the back wall windows, if they open, and soon the air temp is the same as outside. In cooler weather, it could provide some passive solar heating. Hey! It's a historical "green" Eco friendly building! Surely that's grounds for getting funds to restore it? ;)

That would make it a "passive solar design", yes.

The general goal of sawtooth design was to let in lots of light, but NOT lots of solar load, as often the buildings did not have big ventilation available. Usually they were 1-storey and quite square and not necessarily with a lot of doors or windows. Hence, aiming the windows north, so they got atmospheric bounce lighting (and a lot more of it on a cloudy day).

On the other hand, turning around the sawtooth design specifically to create solar load is an innovative idea worthy of modern adoption. You would probably be using high-thermal-mass construction(read: concrete, and insulation on the outside) to absorb and hold the solar heat. And you'd need a way to sluff off the summer sun. I've thought that thought, as a way to present a sawtooth building to visitors for historic reasons, yet have it be passive solar.

Randolph R. Ruiz · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:12 am

As a San Franciscan and an architect who works in a building with a northwest facing sawtooth roof, I can tell you the idea of that roundhouse is baked. So was everything inside most likely. In the building where I teach, the slight western exposure heats the building up way too much in the afternoon.

It does not take much solar exposure (especially from the roof) to adequately heat an interior space, even a drafty one. This roof was probably designed for daylighting and possibly structural reasons. looking more carefully at the roundhouse, it is possible that the windows were much smaller than typical for sawtooth roofs, but I'd bet many of the windows were whitewashed or tarred over while the building was still young. Skylights are also excellent at radiating indoor heat into space when its dark outside. There are no widows on the vertical back wall, where they are normally. There are reasons why we put more windows on walls than on roofs. The engineers that designed this building may have innovated too much.

There may be a structural reason for the roof form. It might have been designed as a "folded plate" structure that gains strength from its form. The folded roof plates can act simultaneously as vaults and beams to span large distances with less material. https://www.google.com/search?q=folded+plate+roof&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=ikF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rQUfUeqtLKWUiQKA2ID4Cw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=760

As far as intentionally scooping up sunlight from the roof for the sake of heating, this is obviously what greenhouses do. It takes a lot of whitewash, shading, and venting to regulate the inside temperature so they don't turn into solar ovens, and these factors are adjusted often over the course of the year, and sometimes the day, to keep the tomatoes happy.

In buildings for people, well-designed passive systems also rely upon shading, thermal mass, and ventilation to maintain human comfort, but the solar exposure thing is easy to overdo. It is important to be able to store the excess heat for when it is really needed. Trombe walls use over-exposure to the sun to collect heat that can be stored for use over night and on darker days, or to create a draft to encourage cooling. https://www.google.com/search?q=folded+plate+roof&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=ikF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rQUfUeqtLKWUiQKA2ID4Cw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=760#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=6Pa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=trombe+wall&oq=trombe+wall&gs_l=img.3..0l3j0i24l7.60371.62294.0.62526.11.9.0.2.2.0.192.1161.2j7.9.0...0.0...1c.1.4.img.-QLtcu7ZNng&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.cGE&fp=87de34a513e01e47&biw=1440&bih=760

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:42 pm

One now gone since this 2013 thread:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... demolished

Quote:

Canadian Pacific this week began work to demolish the former Soo Line Shoreham roundhouse and diesel shop in Minneapolis. The buildings had been in ruins for decades, and were fenced off from the rest of yard, which is used as an intermodal terminal. The area where the roundhouse sits is needed for expansion of the facility.

Much more at the (non-paywall) link.