http://books.google.com/books?id=wHGfrl ... &q&f=false

I am going to search our library system for this but I suspect I will want a copy. Used copies start at over $180.

I'm especially interested in this which comes from the summary, the pages that document this history aren't available on the net:





I have heard from many people that the government during WW II was to blame for EMD to emerge as the dominant producer of diesel locomotives.

Was government to blame or was it the free market ?

Does anyone have production figures to back up or disprove this claim?

Does anyone know if this author included Whitcomb diesel sales in the Baldwin market share since Whitcomb was owned by Baldwin and sold hundreds of Whitcombs to the Army during WW II?

I have to get this book through the library system. I intend to make this a theme in our local museum display on Whitcomb this Spring.

Steve

Steve- I've read another book (MANY years ago) on the development of U.S. submarines during WWII that also touched on this subject. I'll do some searching and see if I can figure out what that book was and post the title if I find it.

Awesome and thank you. I have a buddy living near Washington D.C. and I'm prodding him to go to Fort Eustice and the Army Transportation Museum to research Military Railway Service (MRS) records to see what the purchase records were during WW II.

Original research here - anyone wanna help?

Steve

Steve- I think this is the book: THE FLEET SUBMARINE IN THE U. S. NAVY. A Design and Construction History by John D. Alden.

The book was published in 1979, which is about the time I read it, so I'm fairly sure this is the book I'm thinking of. No on-line excerpts available so I can't be certain.

http://www.amazon.com/FLEET-SUBMARINE-Design-Construction-History/dp/B000PRYHTS

Available used for ~$75 and up. Hopefully you can find it in a library.

Thank you. I now have two books to have my local library go-to-guy try and find.

Going over there this morning.

Steve

I found this - an excellent site on the basics:

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/diesel/chap1.htm


Steve

First, Churella's book is available as an e-book from Amazon and PUP, but at a cost: $36 from PUP, cheaper at Amazon ($20.52 Kindle edition).

Second, check your academic libraries--universities, etc. I found it on the shelves at a university library 30 miles from me, and I didn't even bother checking the academic libraries closer to me.

Third, I own and have read that book, but I don't remember much, if anything, about Whitcomb specifically. This book is an academic look at business management, not technological history, utterly brilliant look at the subject and devoid of the usual "railfan" chatter based on loco appearances and sounds. Whitcomb was also never really involved in the transition from steam to diesel, the focus of the book, aside from being a bit player. (Sigh--do I have to go dig out my copy and check?)

your going underwater and diesels need working air to function.

perhaps pressurized air tanks?

NYC and pennsylvania altho large rrs and competitors, had economic problems, when the diesel was showing better performance vs their steam, they weren't so hesitant to switch over.
When the diesel drive was on steam manufacterers were taking a hit,, and its getting harder to get parts and getting more expensive to run steam period not necessarily because some steam could run better.
Thats what N&W eventually did, they ran steam till it just wasnt feasable anymore.

an off shoot possibility tho maybe an underlying tone...Futurists. These folks were about in Italy in 1909 having the concept attitude for the future, cars, planes, anti-railroad (google futurist)
altho I find it hard to connect, its a curious underlying attitude whats happenned in this country for steam and railroads in general. Its kinda an insult to railroads as in America helped build this country and the attitude stomps on it.

There may be more to the story but every shred of info-evidence reveals more.

thanx

Let me add to that the Diesel vs Streetcar, IE Bus vs Streetcar, GM went out of their way to promote their buses and killed the LA streetcar system, there's new suspect about the North Shore abandonement that the Sesquehanna corp holding company that owned the NS did not try to continue the service..as it may have been controlled by GM corp. I'm still learning about this.

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mo ... conspiracy

The "GM Streetcar Conspiracy" is a story/tale eagerly exaggerated or pooh-poohed by parties either eager to use the wrongdoings to condemn large businesses (and capitalism) and blame them for the lack of "clean, efficient" trolley systems nationwide, or historians who dismiss such blame as exaggerated partisan "history-rewriting."

I personally trust the historians over the political activists. Your mileage may vary.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's been discussed here before:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319&p=9254

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7102&p=32992

You want a consiracy? I purchased the E-version of Churella's Steam to Diesel March 4, 2009 for 11.94 from Diesel Ebooks (yes, there's some irony there).

Today, the same vendor wants $55.73


Order ID
#DSLXXXX
Order Date
Wednesday, March 4, 2009 00:XX:XX
Order Status
Shipped

Items Ordered
Churella, Albert From Steam to Diesel: Managerial Customs and Organizational Capabilities in the Twentieth-Century American Locomotive Industry Status: Downloaded (9780691027760) $11.94 (1 x $11.94)
Subtotal: $11.94
Grand Total: $11.94

Yup, our PrairieCat library system has a couple copies and I have one on hold.


I never said that Whitcomb was a major player. I just wonder if Whitcomb sales were included as part of Baldwin's market share since Baldwin owned them. Whitcomb never built their own engines for their switchers. Buda was the engine builder for their 65-ton centercabs that were sold to the military during WW II. The only engines that Whitcomb ever designed and built were small gas engines for their mine and industrial locomotives which were never sold to railroads - too small.

In fact, Whitcomb's first locomotives ever sold to a railroad as far as I know were the 90-ton gas-electrics in 1929 sold to the Milwaukee Line. By then Baldwin had invested over $500,00 in Whitcomb stock and assisted with engineering and construction advice. I doubt that Whitcomb alone could ever had entered the railroad market without Baldwin's assistance - they were simply too small.

Steve

I have a book by Lyle Cummins (the son of Clessie Cummins who developed the Cummins diesel) that is entitled Diesels for the First Stealth Weapon: Submarine Power 1902-1945. He covers Diesel power plants for the submarines of all the nations.

As I recall he connects the USA Navy Diesel submarine development program of the 1930s to creating Diesel engines that would be useful for Diesel locomotive applications. A Diesel power plant useful for the confines and maintenance/service durations required for a submarine would be applicable to railroad service.