That sounds pretty reasonable, and I expect that lease agreements of 5 or 10 years are fairly common. I'm interested to see how many long term ones come to light, if any. 20 years? 40 years? Longer?

I wasn't surprised by the fact they leased the engine, but rather by the fact they had a very specific contract term that was also a rather long duration, at least in comparison to similar arrangements I'm familiar with.

Thanks Alexander I could not have said it any better.

Pennsy Power

I do think the length and intensity of this thread merits the comment that seeing a PRR steam locomotive, a big, prime, steam era locomotive, has been a passion for a huge cadre of individuals. I'm a Long Island guy, always have been, so this is doubly delicious for me. Point is, might this enthusiasm transfer over equally to seeing a reasonable reassembly plan for 1361 brought forth? And then there is the Decapod, still free to roam. Two of the four, big PRR design steamers.
No, not suggesting Strasburg take them on, except perhaps, by contract, but consider the enthusiasm an operational G5s has engendered, particularly with such a powerful restoration/management team.

I must concur with Richard Glueck's comments above about the passion Pennsy enthusiasts have for their road, and in particular for that road's steam power. Whooee, I'd heard of Pennsy fans being called SPFs* before, but I didn't realize the "disease" could get that bad, even after watching some comments about a certain 4-6-2!

Anyway, like Richard, I can't help but wonder if we couldn't somehow channel that enthusiasm into something really constructive. Oh, if only the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania were just a little more flexible on loaning out some artifacts! NKP 765 brought so many out at Altoona, what would a K4s or an M1 do?

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by Richard's comment that, under some sort of deal, the Strasburg just might be able to use that I1 that's up in New York; might not need to double-head the freight train with that one. . .:-)

Hmm, and then there's No. 35, identical to the 39, all those advantages of interchangeable parts and standardization, even if it had to leave Long Island, too. . .

Oh well, maybe things will eventually work out; Ross is always saying "Hope springs eternal," and "Patience is a virtue." Now, you must excuse me while I dive into the bomb shelter at White Sulfur Springs. . .

*Slobbering Pennsy Freaks :-)

I want to be certain my comments are received as they were meant. We see this passion for PRR steam explode every time the subject bubbles up. Come to think of it, we almost saw a K4s explode, but that's another thread! I simply was stating that with the likelihood of seeing the G5s running well past my lifetime, might not their be a purposeful enthusiasm for rebuilding and running those three other examples that exist outside the gates of the RMPA? One can argue factors such available cash, power, design, and need, but the bottom line is, and here's another argument, nobody is as passionate about "their roads" steam power as are PRR guys. The proof precedes me in this thread.

SteveRG,

The locomotive will remain in LONG ISLAND livery and as #39. There are provisions in the lease to allow for temporary repainting and re-marking to allow for photo opportunities, movie making and the like.

Don Fisher, President

Railroad Museum of Long sland

Ummmmm.............

As much as I understand "slobbering Pennsy foamers," I would suggest that the passions around the current PRR steam fanaticism has to do with a combination of missed opportunities and tantalizing teases.

In the 1960s and 1970s we had 1223 at Strasburg. Nice, but small, and repetitive.

Then in the 1980s we had "7002." That duo took the mainline a couple times. Blink, and you missed them. Not very chaseable, and most of us never had a chance for tickets.

A PRR B4a elsewhere in central Pa. About a mile out and back.

A PRR I1sa. Horribly impractical for excursion work, but just imagine..... well, that's all we've been allowed to do. Imagine.

1361. Imagine her spending a season on the Blue Mountain & Reading, or an NRHS convention in 1988 with 1361, BM&R E8's, and a GG1 posed at South Amboy. Horse Shoe Curve. Pittsburgh. Rockville Bridge. Harrisburg. Scenic runs along the Susquehanna and Juniata Rivers. Instead, we got a couple trips on the Bald Eagle and one outing to York, Pa. Over in about a year and a half. Such a tease, that [bleep].

And there's a "warehouse" full of "potential candidates" across the street from a competent and proven steam facility, and what do we have to show for it? A "John Bull" replica tooting its whistle.

Compare this to the opportunities to see, experience, and ride behind 4449, 261, 614, 2101, 3751, 630, 3985, 4501, 611, 844, 1218, 765, 722, 1522, and the like.

It's not so much "slobbering Pennsy foaming" as righteous indignation at the damn flirts.

Hey, at least you get a peek at the ankle and a smile... Imagine being a NYC or IC steam fan......

"LIKE" button, hit repetitively.

Wanna talk about a "tease", how about that Mohawk that almost became a Major Star, but instead stayed in the convent (though no fault of her own, just a simple turn of fate)?

Having had a short "fling" with 39 about 32-34 years ago, I certainly look forward to some future trips to Lancaster County. Might even get out the 3x4 Graflex.

Howard P.

May wanna consider upgrading to a 4x5 or use some roll film, unless you have a source for the 3x4 film ;)

There is truth in that thought concerning NYC and IC power.
We are rapidly heading off the mainline here, and into the land of "what ifs".
The presence of the G5s operating at Strasburg is will scratch the itch we've all felt between our shoulder blades. I would offer that documentation of the fleet at RMPA is quite possible with today's available means, and restoration of some locomotives in the collection should not be permanently put aside. I do understand the reasoning they have employed. Perhaps locomotive surveys could establish as short list of restoration possibilities for future years.
In the interim, there remains the list provided by Alex #4. The I1sa impractical? Yes, but a delicious idea just the same.

Us Pennsy fans have had a couple teases, all before I was born of course. But one group I feel even more bad for than the NYC steam guys is the B&O steam guys. Only 2 large engines saved from the scrapper with there home rails controlled mostly by an anti-steam railroad.

Another PRR engine no one seems to have brought up is the I believe privately owned B6sa on the W&W. Not a bad engine for a tourist railroad.

I'll admit to being curious as to what drives the Pennsy fans, enough to ask about it on the Railfanning forum, under the heading "Pennsy Enthusiasm."

Have fun, even if you do have to log in to see the thing.

Thank you Michael,

I thought you would come to recognize the importance of this recent development in #39's restoration. It may be the only way you will get to ride behind "the old girl" in your lifetime.

For those interested, our webmaster posted the Agreement, Lease and Scope of Work for the #39 on our RMLI Website. Please visit www.rmli.org and follow the link to "Documents."

A note on the costs indicated in the Scope of Work: You are viewing summer 2009 dollar amounts. That is when Strasburg performed the engineering analysis on #39 and formed the Scope of Work for the Museum. The Museum immediately increased the estimate by 15% to cover for unanticipated expenses. We maintain the finished restoration estimate of $1,839,681.54 today.

I look forward to your questions and comments and your continuing support for this project.

Don Fisher, President
railroad Museum of Long Island

Gentle Forum Members,

It’s been two years since this thread was active!! I enjoyed a little "Hump Day" reading going through these postings. As I did, I thought – RwyPN Forum members might like to know where we are in our efforts to restore #39.

Additionally, Pennsy Power wrote: “I too have more preservation related questions about the project however, they are non-mechanical so they wouldn’t be considered preservation questions to be posted here.” Whenever we are “raising” funds to restore something, chances are good no nut-busting, screw-turning work is getting done, so - beyond slathering on Cosmoline, “non-mechanical” issues are as much a part of THE “preservation” discussion as the mechanical spacing of staybolts! Just my humble opinion.

So let’s look at and comment on the Railroad Museum of Long Island’s “Steam up LIRR 39” efforts over the past few dozen months. Our fundraising efforts have reached $128,458.10. We work toward raising an additional $864,000.00 in 2015!

Before we collectively hold our heads and shake them, the RMLI has a fifteen (15) year agreement with the Strasburg Rail Road Company to raise the money necessary and begin work on #39 at Strasburg. You may see all the documentation at http://www.rmli.us/RMLI/Documents.html Everyone connected with this project understands the challenge of raising money necessary to getting the job done, we are in this for the long haul and we have set our sights on a multi-year process to get it done.

So what insights might I share with you, gentle Forum member? Read on . . . . . . .


Grant writing and Foundation resources are not what many of us in the preservation field raise them up to be. We have found Foundations in general are not interested in industrial history. Their focus is on the here, now and future of education, art, youth, health and medical research. In the past twenty-six months, we have written ten grant applications to Foundations and Corporations.

• Of the ten, five grantors were considered “railroad interest” specific.

• Three grantors, (one railroad specific), failed to even acknowledge receipt of our application!

• Six grantors sent kind letters of rejection giving varied explanations as to why they could not support a locomotive restoration project.

• Two grantors showed very high interest in the Railroad Museum of Long Island and asked us to submit future applications for historic preservation of railroad subjects. (Grantor “A” would not support the #39 project because, “they do not provide money to steam projects due to poor performance from past experience.” Grantor “B” “could not support a project that would ultimately be removed from Long Island.”) We sincerely thanked both of these grantors for their consideration and the RMLI will be working with both Foundations in the future for non-steam projects that will remain on Long Island.

• One railroad specific grantor wished us well but admitted they would only support steam projects within their area of operation.

• One Foundation is pending and we are hoping they may look favorably on a three year schedule of giving toward the project.

Prior to applying, we first research prospective Foundations. We find that many limit the amount of their grant. Further, they look for a specific timeline of thirty-six months or less for successful conclusion of the funded project. These two “givens” limit the possibilities for our #39 project as we need much larger sums of grant money and the project cannot be guaranteed to be complete within thirty-six months of granting the funds.

We are not perplexed by this Foundation and Corporate response. It is an ongoing education and we continue to search for grantors that may be interested in supporting a truly American Industrial success story. If you, gentle reader, have any suggestions for corporate funding, please pass them along and we will diligently investigate them: dfisher@rmli.us


Direct mailings, brochure enclosures and print articles have been sent to members of the National Railway Historical Society, the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society, the Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts and “The Mutual,” the Benefit Fund Newsletter for trainmen and engineers in the Northeast Region of the United States.

To date, Chapters of the PRRT&HS have donated $4710.00, the Camden and Amboy Rail Historians have donated $1000.00 and Chapters of the NRHS have donated $850.00 to the #39 restoration fund. Many, many individual members of these organizations have donated to the fund in amounts from $5.00 to $500.00. These donations are most valuable to the effort and cannot be diminished!! At the beginning of our efforts in 2013 I stated that this will be a “grassroots” effort by people interested in preserving live steam in America. We appreciate their interest and support of #39. If everyone donates something, whatever they can, to the engine of their choice, Steam in America will survive!


Merchandise. The “Steam up LIRR 39” committee embarked on a number of merchandising projects to raise funds for #39. Christmas Tree ornaments, decorated railroad spikes, tee shirts, staybolt caps and sleeves and a book are all for sale at “meet ups,” and at the Museum Gift Shops. To date $4024.00 has been added to the restoration fund by the sale of “merch!” By far the most successful item is a book written and donated to the #39 effort by retired Long Island Rail Road engineer Mark E. Smith. Mark’s book, “My Life on the LIRR: Memories of a Steam Locomotive Engineer” has contributed $2275.00 to the fund through over the counter sales and web sales on Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/My-Life-L-I-R-R-M ... 1492869090

The committee recently gained approval from the Museum Board of Trustees to design and market a Lionel Collectible “O” Gauge Car to raise funds. The toy train car will be unique, “made in America,” and highly valuable to toy train collectors. It will highlight the #39 restoration effort to a new demographic of railfan – the model train lover. Point of sale merchandise is not only a way to raise money, but an opportunity to spread the work of the restoration effort . . . . look for our soon to be announced Engine #39 three season jacket, wearing it in puts the face of our G5s in public where ever you go!!


Social Media. The “Steam up LIRR 39” Facebook page has 2671 friends and followers and that number grows every day. Steam rail aficionados from around the world are watching and following the progress of #39. You can reach us at https://www.facebook.com/SteamUpLIRR39?fref=ts

Dean Walker, one of our friends and followers on Facebook from Great Britain has created wonderful art that will be featured on “Let’s get rolling!” tee shirts this summer. Without the worldwide connectivity of social media we would never meet these like-minded people who in their own way support the “Steam up LIRR 39” efforts.

The #39 committee members have created numerous video segments that appear on YouTube and on our Facebook page:

https://youtu.be/u58479BAZio?list=PLSak ... e88xfghzcz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozxY2o77jSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bvIZEruSmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7hdKU5zdlo

The “Steam up LIRR #39” team continues in 2015 with progress on a documentary: “Number 39’s Journey to Paradise:”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdtQ3GW ... e=youtu.be

In addition to publicity the committee generates regarding Engine 39, local newspapers, television and radio, Trains eMagazine, Lionel’s eMagazine and many Forums and websites have picked up and reprint stories about the Railroad Museum of Long Island’s efforts.

Our active presence on the World Wide Web is our most visible vehicle to get the word out about the #39 project. It is my belief that it will be through “The Web” that we will meet our strongest and most valued supporters. Someone may see these projections and say “hey, this is where I want to put my efforts to get one of America’s industrial success stories back on track!”


Outreach. All the work of the “Steam up LIRR 39” committee is a form of “outreach,” whether it be social media, video or print. But nothing can substitute for face to face contact with the public. To that end in 2014 the Team had two “meet ups” at Strasburg Rail Road and worked a three day “Steampunk Unlimited” event in September. Displays at the Riverhead Railroad Festival and Wooden Toy Train Play Days at RMLI were held in 2014. This year, meet ups at Strasburg and Horseshoe Curve have been held. We look forward to more exhibitions and visits in 2015.

Our partners, the Strasburg Rail Road Company, have been invaluable in allowing us to work at their site, holding the meet ups with steam fans and fans of the Pennsylvania Railroad, appearing at their events and shooting video for documentaries and publicity. Their cooperation in placing Engine 39’s whistle on their regularly scheduled steam trains has added to the awareness of the Engine 39 restoration effort. We are honored to be working with such a fine organization!


Planned giving. A source of funding that had not occurred to the Board of Trustees or the Steam Team was a bequest from someone who died! In August 2013, Walter H. Milne, a past member of the Museum died and left the RMLI his entire estate. Although he did not specifically state that funds were to be used for Engine 39, the Board voted to place 20% of his estate, or $103,109.00 into the restoration fund. Revenue from other bequests may be forthcoming but we have no idea when or from whom.

When considering the solicitation of planned giving from our members and friends, we ask them to please be specific where they wish their funds to go, the #39 Restoration Fund, the RMLI Endowment Fund or the Museum’s General Fund. This is very important information necessary to guide the Board of Trustees in their function as administrators of the various Funds.



This sums up the work that we have been doing over the past two years and hints at the continuing efforts of the Museum and the Committee to “git ‘er done!”

Fundraising on this large a scale for industrial preservation is a challenge. Lacking the deep pockets of a successful commercial Long Island class one railroad with an interest in its steam history, with the continuing poor state of the economy, the lack of Foundation and Corporate interest in America’s industrial past and the public’s love-hate relationship of the railroad on Long Island it is an interesting quest that we are on.

Restoration donations by year are: 2013, $11,499.00; 2014, $114,502.00; and 2015 to date, $2,457.00. As you can imagine, Walter H. Milne’s bequest is 80% of the funds raised to date. Large, single-grantor donors will make this project come to fruition quickly. Until that or those people or entities are found, every single dollar is important and counts toward a living, breathing Pennsy Class G5s locomotive running on the East Coast!

I want to take a moment to thank the members of the “Steam up LIRR #39” committee for all the hard work they are performing for this effort. Jordan Torregrosa, Ronnie Schnepf and Art Christian are to be congratulated for working with the Museum Board of Trustees and guiding the effort to grow the Fund and get the word out about Engine 39’s restoration. Thank you to Art Single and Byron Babbish for all their work on producing Mark Smith’s book for the #39 effort! Thank you to John Kilbride for his writings in "The Mutual" and Steve Barrall for his contributions to our grant writing. Welcome to new member Gerard Jewells with thanks for his video work today and going forward. And thank you to everyone who has donated to the “Steam up LIRR #39” project!!

Don Fisher, President
Railroad Museum of Long Island