If that's the Trolley Valhalla "Doodlebug" that was at Tansboro and Jobstown, N.J., and Penn's Landing, Philadelphia, Pa., it's missing a lot of parts. When I ran it at Tansboro about 1969, it had a V-7 engine. The 8th bore had a concrete piston and no piston rod. The seats back them had come out of a PCC car, and maybe the window crank handles, too. It had a manual transmission with 4 speeds in both forward and reverse.

Nah you're right... I was wrong, and wrong is a lousy place to start.

Jim, that is the way we got it. The only parts that aren't on the bus that are stored away is the rusted hood and radiator shell. We presume the engine was a Ford flathead but the transmission is a mystery since it has a forward/reverse gear box in it. I can only imagine that thing with a three or four speed attached to it. That would have been way too fast to use in any form on the base unless you were racing to get home!

Later!
Mr. Ed

A attractive and tall enough privacy fence, wall or hedge might have been a better neighbor. It may be gold but to the untrained eye, beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to rust buckets as rare as they may be rare rust buckets. A junk yard or a repository for a possible future rather than a hoarding in full sight of the community? Progress or an impression of a derelict environment that infers on the larger community?
Who will win? As Yogi Bera said, "It's deja vu all over again. "
A lack of common sense on all sides seems to have jumped the shark as far as a reasonable accommodation rather than an equally unfocused sell off going in three directions simultaneously.
If theres a moral to the story it is gimme versus maybe. The common sense adage of first things first seemed to get lost in a lack of focus where the reach exceeds the grasp of priorities and an assessment of wherewithal.
Sadly, its an episodic reality. Like the EBT hoppers, perhaps there is a waiting home for a purposeful future home elsewhere. A silver lining to a perceived dark cloud.
Reading all these threads on the subject gave the impression that things were already losing traction in a very visible manner, or the impression of same. Take yourpick and the result is the same.
Hence politics entered the situation as an opportune pulpit for forcing a resolution one way or the other way. Both sides are equally blurry as much as the original cause of the dispute was the same blurriness.

For anyone interested, there's a fairly decent article at the following link:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/b ... e8fcb.html

The article captures the details of the “auction” process pretty well. Seemed odd to me that with so many lawyers involved that the auction process would be so loose.

J.R.

Sounds like a rather standard sealed bid auction to me. Any interested party should have contacted the court for a copy of the order outlining the bidding process, rather than relying on the gossip on this site.

Members,

I met Attorney Fiorilla - the court appointed receiver - on Monday at Pemberton and listened to his presentation very carefully. I do hope the following provides help regarding the Pemberton equipment disbursement as the process seems a little different from typical sealed bid “auctions”.

As of the Monday’s presentation, there was no “stay”, so the process is proceeding. The good people of Pemberton were encouraged to contact Mr. Garrett (apologies if I misspelled the gentlemen’s name) – Attorney for the Trust - regarding removal of their goods, supplies, artifacts, and personalty, including those items in the building. I understand that Mr. Garrett was in contact with Mr. Fiorilla, but had other commitments that day. I also understand that if the Trust removes “the equipment” that’s okay - they must make arrangement with Mr. Garrett.

The bottom line: the equipment will be removed pursuant to the court’s order.

Mr. May – as I was not focused on contents of the station, I can not comment with a reasonable degree of certainty. I thought station contents were included – if you, or someone else, recalls please share. Otherwise interested parties are encouraged to contain Attorney Fiorilla or their legal representative.

I understand that those interested in the railroad equipment and supplies outside should write to the court (or Attorney Fiorilla), providing not only “an offer” but also describing their intentions for the equipment. My takeaway -- they want to see the equipment actively preserved and/or used, not hauled off to rust somewhere else. I also understand submissions will be reviewed by the court and council for the parties. Again, serious inquiries should network with Attorney Fiorilla. I do not have a copy of the order yet, and do not know if “bidding details” are provided therein.

If it was me, I would include brief info about my business or organization, including evidence of accomplishments, e.g. photographs of our work products. Rule of thumb – K I S S = keep it simple and smart. I would also mention preliminary logistics and related contact info, etc as well as any suggestions Attorney Fiorilla may provide. Be thorough, but brief. Finally, I understand they want to conclude review and make awards in the near future – 3o -45 days. Beyond that, I do not know a detailed schedule, but I was discussing matters with others regarding my old shop car.

Once again, I do hope this helps.

Jim

Well Well Well, I see they intend to Auction off the Rail Bus. I am the person that donated that piece of equipment to the Org.
It was provided with the express understanding that it belonged to the Org.
Would be restored there, and remain there.
If it is auctioned off (for any Reason) I was advised that I should seek LEGAL council, and obtain the Appraised value of the unit. Not the auctions selling price. I would most likely be dealing with the Township, and of course their attorneys.
I really do not have any gripe with the actions, but they must deal with all the aspects of the situation.
AL

The key question I see is whether or not a person who makes an offer is free to withdraw that offer at any time prior to its acceptance by the seller. I would think so unless the seller stipulates the criteria for accepting an offer, including a time period to decide on acceptance.

It's not that simple, Ron. That's how it works in plain contract law, but it's different and more complex with charitable donation law, just to name a few reasons, IRS, UPMIFA and the tendency of donors to frantically donate to hit a tax deadline and then memorialize later.


"was advised" eh? Not knowing by whom, I will observe that "seek legal advice" is a cheap throw-away statement, and you see it most often said by 1) lawyers or 2) people who aren't paying for the lawyer. One has a conflict of interest and the other is apparently in the habit of spending other people's money.

What I don't like is the implication that you should give up if you can't afford one. No you should not give up. You should fight like a mongoose (unless you are in Michigan, in which case you should fight like a wolverine. Or a Spartan. Or -- ok, this is why I didn't go to Santa Cruz.)


Sorry, that is not going to happen. Your intent has been defeated. I believe in the other thread I discussed frustration of purpose, and cy pres.

If you want it back, I would phone up the receiver right now and have a conversation with him. Since the prime mover behind the sale appears to be removing the items moreso than earning money, there's a fair chance the receiver is not gonna put up as much of a fight as you can.

Here's a hint. When you make a large donation, it is customary to create and sign and agreement which describes the terms and conditions of donation. Meet the verb "memorialize", which is to create such a document. Seriously. Universities have whole staffs of people that do nothing but negotiate and comply with memorializations. Now it is quite common for a donor to rush a gift "under the wire" of a December 31 tax deadline... and then memorialize the gift some time later. Months or even years later, meanwhile the gift is in limbo - written off as far as the IRS is concerned, but not legally transferred. And if during this time, conditions change, well, it DOES happen that gifts are either reversed or redirected, as serves your tax purposes. That is an appeal which may work. I've used it.

As I said in the other thread, even better if the gift IS memorialized and the agreement now contradicts the current situation. In that case you have a strong case to "ask for it back" or ask it be redirected to another museum. Believe me, no buyer wants to buy a unit tainted with the possibility of the original donor tangling him up in a lawsuit.

Your power to redirect the unit does not mean it needs to come back to YOU. In fact, if you have enjoyed tax advantage, it is probably easier on your taxes if it stays within the 501(c)(3) nonprofit universe.


Seriously though, you need to talk with the receiver. Seriously. It is likely that he will dialogue with the township for you, and the township's tail will be wagging for any deal in which the unit GOES AWAY. The Trust is the party I'd worry about.

Oh and beware of comparing auction value to appraised value. Many parties (NOT the tax assessor, sadly) will consider auction value to be a canonical reference for market value, unless you can prove the auction was tainted in some way. E.G. intentionally marketed in a way invisible to specialty buyers who'd be interested in it.

Again -- talk to the receiver. You CAN win but only if you really try.




* But if you do get a lawyer, you get the bleepin best in the biz. Call 3 lawyers who are somewhat off-specialty to the guy you need, and ask who's the best. ("someone in our firm" is not the right answer.) And that's who you get. And when your guy calls the other guy, he goes "Oh." This is not particularly more expensive. I don't hire B-rated lawyers, but the cheapest guy I ever hired was also the best in his area of expertise. And that was for a job similar to this here.

Does anyone have a complete listing of what is at the site, more specifically, does anyone know the origin of the flatcar linked below? At first glance it might be a USRA boxcar underframe with a new flatcar body.

[url]http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=889044[/url]

When you say it is not that simple, by your elaboration, it sounds like you are referring to the terms that applied to the original donations and sales to collection.

However, I was referring to the terms of the pending sale to dispose of the collection; not to the terms that applied to the original donations to the collection.

I second the sentiment of the thread. Does anyone know of a complete listing of the auctioned items? Does anyone know who to contact, or more importantly, when to contact them by?

I don't have time right now to re-post it all, but if you do a quick search on RyPN for Pemberton you will find what you are looking for to include the full roster and the receiver's name and contact information.

From other threads:

The collection is as follows:
1938 45 ton G.E. side rod engine from Roebling, 1904 flat car-arch bar trucks from Roebling, 1918 gondola from Roebling, 1923 10,000 gallon tank, Jersey Central Center Cupola Caboose from Medford, 1938 L.V. 50 ton Hopper Car from Roebling, 1942 N5C Pennsylvania RR Caboose from Conrail, 1914 N6B Center Cupola PRR Caboose, 1943 X23 Caboose was built from a 1914 box car during WWII (75 were built), 1938 Rail bus 18’ long used by Provost Marshalls at Fort Dix, 1960 G.E. Center Cab 100 ton Diesel Electric from Roebling, and a 1954 Box Car.

The contact appears to be:

Mr. John K. Fiorilla
Laurel Corporate Center
8000 Midlantic Drive Suite 300 S
Mount Laurel, New Jersey 08054


Does anyone know if that flatcar was built for Roebling, or was secondhand from elsewhere?

Nick