That's NEW historic fabric, not EXTRA.........and 4501 is an exceptionally attractive steam locomotive no matter what the ends of the tender truck axles look like and whether she's painted green or black. This is THEATRE, people, not the Smithsonian's conservation lab.

dave

I can't speak for the colors on the 4501, but an event I recall on the Freedom Train may shed some light on this. The engine was cleaned after every trip, and kept in very good condition.

At one stop, after a trip involving several tunnels, I was up on the boiler with a scrub brush with a handle, working hard to get her clean. One of visitors said "Why are you painting it blue? I think it looks better in black!"

Of course it was only black due to the soot we'd blasted off the tunnel ceilings, but it was so coated it really did look like it was painted black.

Of 500 members of the general public (you know, the ones that we need to be marketing these historic experiences towards) that were polled...... 500 said, "what's a plain bearing" 500 said, " what's a roller bearing" and when asked what they liked best about it they said, "it's so shiny we can see our reflections while standing next to it for a picture."

Jason

Don't like the way something looks? That's an easy fix.

Do yourself a favor and don't look at it!

We may have to appease the great unwashed masses who could barely tell the difference between steam and diesel to pay the bills, but we really do what we do not for them but for people like us who do care about rotating end caps etc.

You got it backwards - we need to do it for them but can also do it in ways that appease us. We're not the target market here, if we alone were capable of supporting it without them this conversation would not be happening.

And at this stage of comprehension it shouldn't.

dave

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Or even better yet, dig into your own pocket and fork over the bucks to make it look they way you think it ought to look.

Or just consider that it will not happen, ever.. Did see, not long ago, a picture of some trucks converted to a picnic table and threw that into the suggestion box. That's the best use of those plain bearing tender trucks now. Consider that in excursion service, their use will not be considered. Besides the fact that NS would not particularly care for them, it's one less lubricant to have to lug around everywhere. As been pointed out before, faux covers are not allowable as is the old way of throwing rollers in old truck, even if lids are removed. Nice thing about these are if any failure does occur, all it takes is a trip to or visit by the car department for a fix. This really is a non issue and shouldn't be discussed further as no change shall occur. Even if it did, what's next? Complain the trucks have a modern profile? Tender is not Southern styled? Now has modernizations not previously done?

Now the truck committee here has in fact prioritized on converting to roller bearings, NFL where possible, on the passenger fleet as well.

Well put. If mainline access is a priority, like it is for 630 and 4501, you have to make these "compromises" with rotating end cap bearings. Seeing rotating end caps is a small price to pay. It's nice to have literally the entire NS system car department avaiable as a "parts warehouse" if problems with these trucks should occur.

For years, railfans and foamers complained of the NS "no steam" policy. Now that has changed, they are able to see and ride behind a steam locomotive on the NS main, so they complain about rotating end cap bearings........

I try to look at things this way...IF 4501 had never left SR service, the improvements she is getting now she would have gotten over her lifetime..e.g. new tender, roller bearing trucks, stoker, feedwater heater, oil cellars.....all things to improve the performance of the locomotive. Frankly I can't wait to see how she performs with all her new improvements. Somewhere I've read during the excursion era she had hauled as many as 20 cars behind her. I'd love to see her wrestle a consist like that sometime!

Might be interesting, indeed!

As to the truck comments, well, I never thought there would be such a reaction! Whooee, at least it's not as bad with some other things, like Pennsy steam power!

Still, one wonders how we do compromise between being as authentic as possible and the practical matters of modern operation. I don't think too many of us would want York 17 to pull wooden passenger cars with link-and-pin couplings and hand brakes only, particularly the brakemen who would have the job of coupling and uncoupling the train (and I'm surprised the WW&F runs without air, even given the light equipment they use). I would like the look of the classic Andrews trucks with plain bearings under the tanks of 4501 and 630, but well understand the practical aspects of the modern roller trucks they wear now. And of course, most importantly of all, we have a modern boiler code, and modern boiler operation with things like proper water treatment that was nonexistent when the predecessors of Cass Scenic used the syphons on the Shays to replenish the water supply from a creek.

Which brings up, what to do with things like those older trucks? I wouldn't scrap them, but would consider keeping them in reserve for a quick change-out for something like a movie shoot or photo charter on home rails. Alternately, these or other sets could be part of an exhibit on railroad car suspension.

Any other ideas, perhaps for other components, such as air brake gear?

That's the way I like to look at it as well - and perhaps the way a lot of us look at the NS Heritage program.

None the less, I think most of "us" are confusing complaints with suggestions and thoughts spoken out loud - thoughts with no malice intended.

Honestly, I think some railfans that frequent these discussion groups would chastise someone for making an observation in regards a misspelled name on a birthday cake before it was even presented. "He should just be happy he's getting a cake!" or "If he wants his name spelled right - he can pay for it himself."

It's like in some ways (though perhaps a stretch) but for sake of argument, the difference between Capitalism and Marxism - you either find success by meeting the needs and desires of your audience and constituents, or you simply declare it. Suggestions - without 'em, nothing would ever improve.

At its very basic level - someone at one time said, "I'd like to see this engine run again" and someone else said: "You should just be happy it's here safe in a museum with it's rusted sheets and lagging safely removed".

/Mitch

The old trucks are perfectly fine for captive service. No need to scrap them.

Not all opinions and suggestions are of equal value. Emotional reactions from people who haven't contributed in any meaningful way to the process and have no basis in the reality in which it is taking place are of little value. They don't make things better because they don't apply. Constructive comments that do help solve problems and reflect the real conditions and requirements are always worth consideration. Knowing the difference and using that as a basis for deciding to post or not to post...that is the question.

dave

Did anyone notice that it was James Stewart in the picture with Paul Merriman and Walter Dove? That dates that picture to the filming of Fools Parade which was filmed in either 1970 or 1971 (film was released in August, 1971). In talking with a former Master Mechanic - Steam for NS, we have narrowed the window to late 1971 to early 1972 for the elimination of the flexible bolts. Pictures taken of the June 1972 Jacksonville to Valdosta excursion show no flexible sleeves.