If you had to name 10 locomotives and 20 pieces of rolling stock that are national treasures what would you pick?

Me?

The John Bull
B&O #4500 (first USRA)
The FT set
The first F40
A Big Boy
A "typical" 2-8-0
NYC #999
An early American
and???

and rolling stock?

Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

> The John Bull

sounds good..........

> B&O #4500 (first USRA)

Maybe.......... still thinking.......

> The FT set

or, as an alternative for balance, the Alco PA....

> The first F40

Even though I campaigned for F40 preservation, I'm still thinking about "national treasure" status....

> A Big Boy

Maybe. However, do we consider the number preserved elsewhere? If there's redundancy that can count against the "national treasure" status, I might instead go for the UP Challenger, or N&W 1218.....

> A "typical" 2-8-0

And I suggest a short-line representative, just to be even-handed. Throw a dart and find the best-preserved one.

> NYC #999

I would sacrifice this in favor of the "classic" 4-4-0 listed below. I have a bias towards the ordinary and not the legendary/sensationalized, as can be seen above with the Big Boy.......

> An early American

How early? The B&O's William Mason or Wilmington & Western 98?

> and???

That leaves two big omissions: a Pacific (I nominate SR 1401) and a PRR GG1. Or, if you take the same "redundancy" debate above, maybe the Metroliner at the RR Museum of Pa.?

Or do we want something narrow-gauge? A D&RGW Mikado?

> and rolling stock?

Ideas at random: Pullman day coach, wooden coach (PRR 3556?), wooden reefer, wooden boxcar, combine/RPO (something like Ma & Pa 35 at the B&O Museum?), the Ferdinand Magellan (our "Royal Train"?), hopper car, steel coach, a stainless 10/6 sleeper, Amfleet coach, dining car, Superliner or AT&SF bilevel car, covered hopper, oldest freight car you can find, narrow gauge stock car and passenger car...........


lner4472@bcpl.net

A national museum with two sites: EBT and Railtown 1897. Two complete sets of infrastructure on opposite ends of the country.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

For a selfish and provincial dream:
A site in Ohio that could gather, preserve, and operate the remaining scattered Ohio Interurban Cars in the manner that they originally did. The interurban era and its contribution to the growth of the State of Ohio as a large industry as well as a mode of transportation is pretty much forgotten.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

I too would want an electric traction museum.

A Shephenson horse car

A New York City cable car

A San Francisco cable car

An early wooden Interurban

A steel Interurban from the Pacific coast

A north Shore heavyweight Interurban

A North Shore Electroliner

Brill street cars from several eras

A Denver power car and trailer car

PCC 1001; first production model

PCC 1030s from San Francisco last production

I could go on and on!

ted_miles@nps.gov

I have to agree with Dave - the "dream museum" should not just be a collection of equipment but rather a whole facility to give the visitors the feeling of what railroading was like when steam was operating. No collection of equipment, no matter how unique or rare could present this feeling better than the few remaining steam shops in the US.

I can think of three - East Broad Top, Nevada Northern at Ely, Nevada and the Sierra Rwy. shops or "Railtown 1897" at Jamestown, California. All three have the original maintenance facilities and equipment that actually operated on the railroad. Additionally,the two narrow guage operations in Colorado, Durango and Silverton and Cumbres and Toltec also have this feel although the facilities are not quite as original as the first three.

As for my dream museum, I would bring the remaining Sierra locomotives which are not at Jamestown back (#18, #36 and maybe even #38). In addition to the Sierra Rwy. shops the Westside Lumber Facilities at Tuolumne, CA would be included as a destination for the trains from Jamestown (the track is not all there, but the right of way is still intact) The Westside did have all the equipment and maintenance facilities left from the logging years until Mr. Bell of Taco Bell fame sold it in the mid-1970's and it ended up being sold piece by piece to be scattered all around the country. Imagine, being able to ride the Sierra Rwy. up to Tuolumne and interchange with the Westside logging operation just as was done until Westside shut down in 1962.


siegwarth@grsi.net

Hey, watch it! W&W 98 isn't bound for a static display just yet.

I'll second the narrow guage Mike. Personally I'd like one of the ones EBT doesn't use, but D&RGW would be a good addition.

> sounds good..........

> Maybe.......... still thinking.......

> or, as an alternative for balance, the Alco
> PA....

> Even though I campaigned for F40
> preservation, I'm still thinking about
> "national treasure" status....

> Maybe. However, do we consider the number
> preserved elsewhere? If there's redundancy
> that can count against the "national
> treasure" status, I might instead go
> for the UP Challenger, or N&W 1218.....

> And I suggest a short-line representative,
> just to be even-handed. Throw a dart and
> find the best-preserved one.

> I would sacrifice this in favor of the
> "classic" 4-4-0 listed below. I
> have a bias towards the ordinary and not the
> legendary/sensationalized, as can be seen
> above with the Big Boy.......

> How early? The B&O's William Mason or
> Wilmington & Western 98?

> That leaves two big omissions: a Pacific (I
> nominate SR 1401) and a PRR GG1. Or, if you
> take the same "redundancy" debate
> above, maybe the Metroliner at the RR Museum
> of Pa.?

> Or do we want something narrow-gauge? A
> D&RGW Mikado?

> Ideas at random: Pullman day coach, wooden
> coach (PRR 3556?), wooden reefer, wooden
> boxcar, combine/RPO (something like Ma &
> Pa 35 at the B&O Museum?), the Ferdinand
> Magellan (our "Royal Train"?),
> hopper car, steel coach, a stainless 10/6
> sleeper, Amfleet coach, dining car,
> Superliner or AT&SF bilevel car, covered
> hopper, oldest freight car you can find,
> narrow gauge stock car and passenger
> car...........

The interurban era and its
> contribution to the growth of the State of
> Ohio as a large industry as well as a mode
> of transportation is pretty much forgotten.

And the same can be said for the state of Indiana!


midlandblb@cs.com

> If you had to name 10 locomotives and 20
> pieces of rolling stock that are national
> treasures what would you pick?

> Me?

> The John Bull

Yes!

> B&O #4500 (first USRA)

Yes!

> The FT set

Yes!

> The first F40

An EMD GP30 second generation diesel would be better.

> A Big Boy

I think I'd take a DM&IR Yellowstone or a UP Challenger over a Big Boy. Reason; a number of railroads used the 2-8-8-4 and 4-6-6-4 types whereas the Big Boys were strictly a UP locomotive.

> A "typical" 2-8-0

DEFINITELY!

> NYC #999
> An early American

One or the other. Number 999 has been quite altered since its famous speed run, and although a nice museum locomotive because of its run, it would not necessarily belong here. Better would be IRM's DT&I #16, RRMofPA's PRR #1223 or a number of other 4-4-0's.

> and???

I think the 9th locomotive should be some type of an electric. I don't think a GG1 would be the best choice, but acceptable. Better would be a "typical" GE or BLW/Westinghouse steeplecab or boxcab.

The 10th locomotive is tough. A "super-power" steamer? A geared locomotive (preferably narrow gauge to point out gauge differences). A "modern" diesel? A "plain jane" saddle-tanker? A case could be made for all, and others too. But I think I would have to go with a "standard" streetcar. Anything pre-PCC. Because so many American towns and cities had streetcar service at one time or the other.

> and rolling stock?

OK here goes. A "standard" wood bodied boxcar and a "standard" steel bodied boxcar. A flat car, a two bay 50 or 55 ton coal hopper, a stock car, a single dome tank car, and a mill end gondola. Any "regular" piece of freight equipment converted to a M-O-W car. A standard heavyweight day coach. A heavyweight Pullman (with upper and lower berths). A streamlined baggage car. A streamlined dome/observation car. Any 2' gauge car. Any 3' gauge car. An R.P.O./baggage/coach. A gallery double deck commuter coach. An electric commuter UNPOWERED coach (a trailer.) A 200 or 250 ton capacity derrick. A modern bay window, steel platform caboose. And of course, a little red wood bodied cupola caboose.


midlandblb@cs.com

> Yes!

> Yes!

> Yes!

> An EMD GP30 second generation diesel would
> be better.

> I think I'd take a DM&IR Yellowstone or
> a UP Challenger over a Big Boy. Reason; a
> number of railroads used the 2-8-8-4 and
> 4-6-6-4 types whereas the Big Boys were
> strictly a UP locomotive.

> DEFINITELY!

> One or the other. Number 999 has been quite
> altered since its famous speed run, and
> although a nice museum locomotive because of
> its run, it would not necessarily belong
> here. Better would be IRM's DT&I #16,
> RRMofPA's PRR #1223 or a number of other
> 4-4-0's.

> I think the 9th locomotive should be some
> type of an electric. I don't think a GG1
> would be the best choice, but acceptable.
> Better would be a "typical" GE or
> BLW/Westinghouse steeplecab or boxcab.

> The 10th locomotive is tough. A
> "super-power" steamer?

My vote for the 10th locomotive would indeed be a Lima super-power locomotive, because of the impact on steam's last generation. A good candidate would be T&P 610 as representing one of the first super-power 2-10-4s, or one of the many remaining berkshires, as they were the most common super-power type. Much as I like geared and logging locomotives, I would like to see them have a museum of their own! Preferably operating on a demonstration railroad.

Chris

A geared
> locomotive (preferably narrow gauge to point
> out gauge differences). A "modern"
> diesel? A "plain jane"
> saddle-tanker? A case could be made for all,
> and others too. But I think I would have to
> go with a "standard" streetcar.
> Anything pre-PCC. Because so many American
> towns and cities had streetcar service at
> one time or the other.

> OK here goes. A "standard" wood
> bodied boxcar and a "standard"
> steel bodied boxcar. A flat car, a two bay
> 50 or 55 ton coal hopper, a stock car, a
> single dome tank car, and a mill end
> gondola. Any "regular" piece of
> freight equipment converted to a M-O-W car.
> A standard heavyweight day coach. A
> heavyweight Pullman (with upper and lower
> berths). A streamlined baggage car. A
> streamlined dome/observation car. Any 2'
> gauge car. Any 3' gauge car. An
> R.P.O./baggage/coach. A gallery double deck
> commuter coach. An electric commuter
> UNPOWERED coach (a trailer.) A 200 or 250
> ton capacity derrick. A modern bay window,
> steel platform caboose. And of course, a
> little red wood bodied cupola caboose.


holombo.chris@ssd.loral.com

> Yes!

> Yes!

> Yes!

> An EMD GP30 second generation diesel would
> be better.
Wouldn't an RS-1 be the better choice? after all it was the first road switcher.
> I think I'd take a DM&IR Yellowstone or
> a UP Challenger over a Big Boy. Reason; a
> number of railroads used the 2-8-8-4 and
> 4-6-6-4 types whereas the Big Boys were
> strictly a UP locomotive.

> DEFINITELY!

> One or the other. Number 999 has been quite
> altered since its famous speed run, and
> although a nice museum locomotive because of
> its run, it would not necessarily belong
> here. Better would be IRM's DT&I #16,
> RRMofPA's PRR #1223 or a number of other
> 4-4-0's.

> I think the 9th locomotive should be some
> type of an electric. I don't think a GG1
> would be the best choice, but acceptable.
> Better would be a "typical" GE or
> BLW/Westinghouse steeplecab or boxcab.

> The 10th locomotive is tough. A
> "super-power" steamer? A geared
> locomotive (preferably narrow gauge to point
> out gauge differences). A "modern"
> diesel? A "plain jane"
> saddle-tanker? A case could be made for all,
> and others too. But I think I would have to
> go with a "standard" streetcar.
> Anything pre-PCC. Because so many American
> towns and cities had streetcar service at
> one time or the other.

> OK here goes. A "standard" wood
> bodied boxcar and a "standard"
> steel bodied boxcar. A flat car, a two bay
> 50 or 55 ton coal hopper, a stock car, a
> single dome tank car, and a mill end
> gondola. Any "regular" piece of
> freight equipment converted to a M-O-W car.
> A standard heavyweight day coach. A
> heavyweight Pullman (with upper and lower
> berths). A streamlined baggage car. A
> streamlined dome/observation car. Any 2'
> gauge car. Any 3' gauge car. An
> R.P.O./baggage/coach. A gallery double deck
> commuter coach. An electric commuter
> UNPOWERED coach (a trailer.) A 200 or 250
> ton capacity derrick. A modern bay window,
> steel platform caboose. And of course, a
> little red wood bodied cupola caboose.


cvsrkahuna@aol.com

NKP Berkshire
Alco RS1
Alco PA-1
4-4-0 B&M
4-6-2 Southern Crescent or K-4 Pacific
4-8-4 Daylight
3 Truck Shay
Early Boxcab Diesel
USRA 2-8-2 or logging 2-8-2
non descript 0-6-0 switcher



bigboy4884@charter.net