call a policeman...now, look at the truck, a state policeman. Or a railroad policeman, as appropriate, get license, owner (city ) now go arrest the mayor. You will have to call a tow (which will get billed to the city)

you have every right.


the City may have an injunction, but has no right to block the line.

I agree, that probably will play well in court. By placing the truck, the city is creating a fiction, out of thin air, that the railroad are scofflaws.


I hope they are very, very careful in this area, because "lawyering up" is exactly what the city is trying to bait them into doing!


AND THAT IS WHY.

The "death of a thousand cuts" goes a LOT faster if the victim has retained counsel, because every cut costs them ten grand in legal fees too.

Hiring a lawyer is usually like sticking your right leg and his left leg in a sack, and hoping you're in a sack race. We do this thing on the good faith that the other guy is doing the same thing. Unfortunately most lawyers do it reflexively without checking the nature of their adversary, because they don't know what else to do. (and also make money).

However, if your adversary is
- representing himself
- bored in-house counsel
- deep pockets
he's gonna run like a Jamaican while you and your lawyer trip over each other. When dealing with one of these, you need to take a sideways approach. If you've got counsel who is on your side (rather than on the general partners' side, as most are), you can have a lot of fun.


Meh. I'm not wagging my tail over this one because there's good chance the landowner will say they had permission. Be a fun legal argument to make, but not a fun one to pay for.

On the tow... Out here in the Glorious 9th, there's a duty to mitigate legal costs (right down to the duty to waive service) and the judge wants to see that you tried the cheap option before litigating. So if you've got a legal right to tow, then tow.


Brilliant!

A little over 10 years ago CSX got in a political tiff with the mayor and some other officials in Darby, PA, beside Philadelphia (claim to fame - the only place in the U. S. where a Class I mainline and an active trolley line cross at grade). At one point Her Honor parked her city car on the tracks and dared CSX to let a train hit it. I can't remember exactly what happened, but I believe there were charges and counter-charges, and I don't think the mayor really got any satisfaction for whatever her grievances were. Actually, I think the grandstanding had to do more with her running for higher office than anything else.

As an aside, I don't know if CSX ever did find a permanent solution to the problem, but the ground where the diamonds are for the SEPTA crossing of the Philly Sub has always been soft, and necessitated replacing the diamonds about every 18 months or so while I was there. No company in the U. S. makes such a thing, and the diamonds have to be custom-made and imported from Germany. Usually necessitates closing the street at the crossing for two or three days, and the railroad for about a day - usually over a weekend.

Back when the NYS&W reopened its line across Northwestern N.J. a politically ambitious Sussex County Freeholder tried this stunt with a sheriff's car blocking the line just at the NY-NJ state line. The railroad contacted the state police who told the sheriff's deputy he could either move the car himself or he would be arrested and the state police would have the car towed. The deputy wisely decided to move it himself and the Freeholder decided not to run for re-election.

I will leave the wisdom of what legal moves to do to others but I am concerned for CMRR on the public relations front. The fact that the newspaper has repeatedly referred to them as "contaminated", "decrepit", and "deteriorating" railcars already puts them on the defensive. At a minimum CMRR needs someone who is articulate to be available right away to give the railroad's view to the press. The city and the county have had several days after each incident to state their point of view unopposed (along with their trail advocate allies). This can't help in swaying local public opinion.

Hopefully the railroad is gearing up for what is likely to come next. Their volunteer coordinator posts here (and elsewhere) weekly with details of what is going on and with photos of progress made. Perhaps it is time for that to be converted to emails as I suspect the mayor knew exactly when to act to maximize damage. If they know what you are doing in advance they can plan the next acts to cause the maximum disruption. You should also consider the scenarios of what to do when they go after your public excursions. If a train full of passengers goes out and then they block the track to prevent a return do you have a plan to get them back to their cars? I would expect an all out assault on your revenue generating operations. If they can wipe out your revenues, make people not be able to ride your trains and disrupt your maintenance and expansion it will be easier to flat out cancel your lease and no doubt start tearing up track with or without legal permission.

I'm trying to stay out of this one. But two points worth raising:

There are other rail preservation outfits out there that have had to deal with hostile neighbors, right-of-way access issues, etc. Right off the top of my head, I know these kind of issues have arisen with the EBT in the past (but that's a private RR, not a non-profit) and the Maryland & Pennsylvania Preservation Society (the track owners in York County, who at one point supposedly had to have a briefcase of legal documents at the ready any and every time they took a speeder or speeders one direction on their trackage--and ultimately, I think, they lost that specific legal battle). There is probably information to be shared and (very expensive, no doubt) experiences to be learned from. Don't be shy in sharing.

One of the two cars in question was just nominated by the NRHS as an "endangered railroad landmark"--and, honestly, I don't think they have the proverbial "dog in this fight" either. The CMRR should--nay, must-- use this nomination to its advantage politically and public-relations-wise. "Why does your mayor want to destroy forever American history of national significance?" may or may not be overwrought hyperbole, but "political" battles are seldom won by the reserved, polite, and exceedingly accurate--as our national and worldwide political systems and environment sadly demonstrate every hour of every day. If they're going to exaggerate with "asbestos and lead paint contaminating the whole town" blather, you owe it to yourselves to fight just as "dirty" as they want to.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34928

http://www.nrhs.com/news/lion-gardiner-kingston-ny
http://www.nrhs.com/news/nrhs-announces ... -landmarks

Sunlight is always the best disinfectant for local despots and head potentates. Since Kingston is in the New York City media market, a few calls to the news outlets will send camera crews looking for interviews with the aggrieved party, the Mayor, and the County Executive for comments.

Those pictures of the dump truck on the tracks are going to be extremely useful.

Now would be a good time for CMR to choose who will be their spokesperson to the media. Their Congressman and local reps for the two U.S. Senators should also be contacted for the violation of Interstate Commerce (freight service).

The back story in this should also be interesting. How a tourist revenue generator for the Mid-Hudson region is being handcuffed by what appears to be "green"officials. Or, is there another reason, other than the bike trail?

Many states now require sandblasting outdoor artifacts to be"tented" for remediation and containment of lead and grit (and I believe NY State is one of the most stringent on this issue). Obviously, the Mayor's toadies and lackies didn't tell him this when he went running to court. Always a good idea to check your own State's environmental regs.

Geeeezzzzzuz -- Can't these guys catch a break, Catskill Mountain has an unbelieveable uphill battle to contend with, I Just do not get it, these grubby politicians, I for one am disgusted by this move,


the handful of hands have accomplished so much, and being that kingston as a community is not the lost world of eden, you'd think as long as this endevor wasn't comming out of the city pockets they'd be content with the overall progress, of restoring service and create a destination spot for an area of the city that could use some revitalization,


what is this really all about! something is a miss, if the community leaders are that hung up on lead or is this another ploy to make a freaking bike/hike trail for the drug-adicts and homeless that can assult the exciser's that will imaginarly use this walkway/bikeway


I hope CMS , has a good local Lawyer on the volunteer staff, this is gutwrenching along with bridges being out, washouts, Flooding, and track that needs attention, and general vandalism, now some City Hall NINBY, pulls out lead as an issue and clearly violates multiple Laws by Obstruction of a Railroad


City Of Kingston, I have a Message for you, I will Never Vistit your Community Again!

Funny Enough I Had A 4 Day trip Planned for Kingston for early summer

to do some Boating

I'm appalled by the dilapidated condition of that truck. You would think that a respectable city like Kingston would do a better job of maintaining their equipment. My only hope is that the city will repair the rust damage in accordance with environmental standards. I'm not sure if the railroad would want to operate in such a run down city like Kingston.

I'm glad I've been following these guys for a while. I saw this pop up on Facebook and couldn't believe it... An update from someone said the truck was moved. Hopefully they get those cars to storage. I also noticed that the locals around those parts aren't into history all that much....

To quote D-Day in Animal House: "Ramming Speed!"

I just remembered something quite ironic.

Back in the early 1980s, when Steamtown was in a move-it-or-we-die phase, the original agreement was to move the collection/operation to Kingston, New York......

Steamtown to Kingston was circa 1977-78, Steamtown's Bob Barbera's doing. The Ulster County and Kingston "powers-that-be" (or "powers-that-were") really wanted the move-- lots of enthusiasm for it. Location was to be the flats west of Bridge C-9, just about where the two passenger cars sat.

Since CMRR is not a common-carrier (for freight), and it is also not connected to the "general system", I wonder if any of those "blocking a railroad" or "interfering with commerce" scenarios actually apply. See "Stillwater, Minn. and MTM" for a similar story, set in 1989 (?).

As a previous poster commented, what you have here is a David and Goliath story, located within the NY Metro media market. Play it carefully and well, CMRR Brothers.

Howard P.

I don't know either, but I would think that if nothing else, a call to the state patrol about an abandoned vehicle blocking access to your property would be a start.

Well it certainly is their weakest point; the public isn't particularly sympathetic to a junkyard, and the location is ANYTHING but hidden. I looked at Google Street View and they're parked right on the state highway, right where you have to look to see if a train is coming. 90% of the people who see them probably don't realize there's a train ride up the road, and sure wouldn't want to ride THOSE!


Plan for the worst hope for the best, but I don't see any evidence yet that the town is trying to disrupt passenger operations.




I've handled quite a few trains full of passengers during breakdowns and other "stuck in the middle of nowhere, can't get you home" misadventures. All of them have ended perfectly fine, often with the customers saying "don't worry about the train fare, keep it". Which is awesome, and I have the skill to "allow for this" and subtly nudge it. Based on that experience, my plan would be not to get rattled and continue train operations as normal. If the train was blocked, unable to return to the terminal, I would have 2 crewmen call a) the state police about the blockage, and b) the city fire department about the extraction of all those pax including the disabled ones. Now you're going to have several government agencies mad at each other with us the innocent victim.

Unfortunately there are "armchair quarterbacks" and sappy foamers who get rattled. They make the problem much worse. Every operating crewman should be given a stress test to make sure they don't do that. Any problem can be handled with grace and aplomb, and passengers respect that. Of course you do have to do your part. handle it competently. Once, a "newbie" trainman decided to notify all the passengers of this by saying (to the radio, but in his loud cell phone voice): "We ran out of fuel?" Instantly every passenger hated our guts. Well it turns out it was fuel theft, and we gently let that news propagate to the passengers, and it turned public opinion around 180.

When the bad guy crosses the moral event horizon, you can make that work in your favor.

Leave the truck there, and run trains out to the spot with passengers. Do it enough times, you'll get a lot of public support on your side.