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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:36 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 966
True enough RPC {rotary phase convertor} are not new or mysterious, but there are a whole lot of people that have not heard of them or would not consider it an option if they were told about it. A good friend of mine just retired from Proctor &Gamble as senior electrical engineer at large MFG mill in Green Bay. He is one knowledgeable and able to think out of the box "enginerd". He had never heard of a RPC until he built mine. In his line of work there would be no reason to think "RPC". That mill may have it's own power house I don't recall. Needless to say he built me a super qaulity and safe unit. You can obviously build a cheaper bare bones unit that will work fine and cost a fraction of what mine did.

As for power available, mine we fused available power at 60 amps which is way more than needed for my applications. Machine tools are all fused at 30 amps which none of them would draw even on start up. My large lathe is only 7.5 HP. My screw up was in my welder which ended up being a 300 amp Miller D/C. I can only weld up to 5/32 rod as it will start to draw more than 60 amps. Have enough power but fused it to low. At home I seldon need to weld with more than 1/8 rod anyway. Cannot use air arc.

My point is, it can be an option if you don't have 3 phase near by and can be a cost saving alternative. Would also think it a possible option if you had to run a larger machine such as a wheel lathe {or giant Niles} and didn't have enough power? Afraid I am getting over my head in my thoughts though as I am not an electrician and still tring to figure out changing light bulbs. Still trying to figure out how to get "free" energy. My exaspertated electrician friend told me "it ain't gonna happen". Although you are getting that "3rd leg" kind of free with the RPC. So please forgive any of my misunderstandings or choice of description.

Cheers, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
John Risley wrote:
I have a 20 HP phase convertor in my shop at home and can run all my machines at one time if I had too, though I have never run anymore than one machine and air compressor at one time {in real use}.
Wow, 20 hp is a whopper. What machine tools do you own?

John Risley wrote:
Machinehead61 I like your questions and thoughts on shops and equipment.
Thanks John. From one machinist to another we can relate to the love of machine tools and the art of the machinist.

Quote:
"Man is a Tool-using Animal. Weak in himself, and of small stature, he stands on a basis, at most for the fattest-soled, of some half-square foot, insecurely enough; has to straddle out his legs, lest the very wind supplant him. Feeblest of bipeds! Three quintals are a crushing load for him; the steer of the meadow tosses him aloft, like a waste rag. Nevertheless he can use Tools, can devise Tools: with these the granite mountain melts into light dust before him; seas are his smooth highway, winds and fire his unwearying steeds. Nowhere do you find him without Tools; without Tools he is nothing, with Tools he is all." - Carlyle:"Sartor Resartus," Chapter IV


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:35 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 966
Machinehead61, just for the record I am not a machinist or ever was one. I can do just a bare minimum on a lathe or mill and pretty much just putz. Was a decent welder at one time, now I am a nurse. Just love old iron and got carried away with my own shop.

Will PM you about machines as I do not want to hijack the tread about what toys we have at home. Cheers, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
John Risley wrote:
Machinehead61, just for the record I am not a machinist or ever was one. I can do just a bare minimum on a lathe or mill and pretty much just putz. Was a decent welder at one time, now I am a nurse. Just love old iron and got carried away with my own shop.

Hey - you should have seen the tool box of one "machinist" that was hired in a shop I worked in. It was empty except for some wrenches and a cheap socket set. Turns out he was a "loader". He loaded blanks into a CNC, closed the door, pushed the start button.

He was clueless on a manual machine. Didn't have micrometers, edge finders, test indicators nor dial indicators.

He must have interviewed with a lot of improvisation.

He borrowed my tools all the time until he quit - which wasn't a very long stay.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:46 am 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Went to the IRM today (Father's Day) and photographed more of what I missed the last visit starting with outside:

Image

An old shaper.

Image

This is the big Monarch lathe sitting outside.

Image

I believe it has a variable spindle drive.

Image

Big 48" swing by 108" between centers. A lot of lathe sitting there.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:54 am 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Image

An old Lucas boring mill.

Image

Patent date - 1910.

Image

An old Gould & Eberhardt shaper. As many machinists have said - "you can make anything on a shaper except money".

Image

This is inside the machine shop that I missed the other day. A Pratt & Whitney 12x30 lathe.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:05 am 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
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The Model "T" of lathes - South Bend. Guessing a 12x30 with quick change tool post.

Image

A Bridgeport with Vari-Drive head. Looks to be 9x42 table and was told the Bridgeport table feed had been fixed and worked. (they have a reputation for breaking down). Gentleman standing is the head of the steam shop - forgot his name.

Image

Later model South Bend 14" with variable drive spindle and Aloris quick change tool post.

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Drill sharpener - Sellers if I remember.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:38 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 522
Location: Illinois
machinehead61 wrote:

This is inside the machine shop that I missed the other day. A Pratt & Whitney 12x30 lathe.

Steve

That's a high speed threading lathe, it will "catch the thread" every time, automatically. It has 2 coaxial screws on the cross feed ( 1 normal, 1 "rapid traverse" ) and when you have the rapid traverse screw unlocked, you can back the tool out about an inch with a single turn of the crank. You leave the split nut engaged at all times while threading, and reverse the feed screw to traverse back to the beginning of the cut. Adjust the compound feed in a few thousandths while you are on the way back, run the cross feed back in to the stop, throw the feed lever back to forward, (slight pause while the lathe synchronizes itself) and you are in the next pass quicker and easier than reading this paragraph.

That particular lathe was the very first machine tool I ran, as well as the very first tool I ran "production" parts on, doing roughing work on a set of staybolt caps.

Many years later, I'm still cutting metal (now for a living), but it's a rare day when I get to use an engine lathe of any sort.

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
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That Pratt &Whitney I think is a model B from about 1925 vintage. I have a 20" swing version identical to it. Can't recall if they made a 16" too or not. Thought it was available in 3 different sizes. Then they went to the "model C". That P&W lathe is and is still considered by many to be the real Cadillac of lathes. When I bought mine I had talked the machinist who ran it. He told me it was fine and that he had ran one in a place in Racine who had contract work with OMC. They used their P&W Mod B for cutting a chamfer that was ultra critical. Said it was the only lathe that could keep the tolerance where it needed to be.

That old Lucas mill is another diamond {in the rough}. Would of been a nice machine to have operational. On the other hand there are modern machines {Hbars} that you can pick up cheap that would be faster and easier in the long run to use effectively. Tooling is another complications with some of the really old machines. Great pictures of some nice vintage machine tools. Thanks for sharing your pics. John.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 522
Location: Illinois
John Risley wrote:
That old Lucas mill is another diamond {in the rough}. Would of been a nice machine to have operational. On the other hand there are modern machines {Hbars} that you can pick up cheap that would be faster and easier in the long run to use effectively. Tooling is another complications with some of the really old machines. Great pictures of some nice vintage machine tools. Thanks for sharing your pics. John.

There is another Lucas, in the shop, and it was operational, the last time I checked.

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Jdelhaye wrote:
That's a high speed threading lathe, it will "catch the thread" every time, automatically. It has 2 coaxial screws on the cross feed ( 1 normal, 1 "rapid traverse" ) and when you have the rapid traverse screw unlocked, you can back the tool out about an inch with a single turn of the crank. You leave the split nut engaged at all times while threading, and reverse the feed screw to traverse back to the beginning of the cut. Adjust the compound feed in a few thousandths while you are on the way back, run the cross feed back in to the stop, throw the feed lever back to forward, (slight pause while the lathe synchronizes itself) and you are in the next pass quicker and easier than reading this paragraph.

Jeff
I'm not seeing 2 coaxial screws on this lathe. I see 4 rods - going from top to bottom: (1) Appears to be a longitudinal feed shut-off rod with two adjustable lock rings on either side of the saddle and a micrometer adjustable stop on the front of the saddle. (2) Appears to be the single threading lead screw. (3) Appears to be the power feed rod. (4) Appears to be the spindle start/stop rod.

My Monarch has the exact same set up but the top rod also can reverse the feed direction.

Image

Photo taken while I was cleaning the grime off it.

Steve

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Last edited by machinehead61 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
John Risley wrote:
That Pratt &Whitney I think is a model B from about 1925 vintage. I have a 20" swing version identical to it.
That is a big lathe for home use. You have it in a shop?

Steve

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Last edited by machinehead61 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
John Risley wrote:
That P&W lathe is and is still considered by many to be the real Cadillac of lathes. When I bought mine I had talked the machinist who ran it. He told me it was fine and that he had ran one in a place in Racine who had contract work with OMC. They used their P&W Mod B for cutting a chamfer that was ultra critical. Said it was the only lathe that could keep the tolerance where it needed to be.
It is my understanding that the lathe industry had standards of precision that were held by every builder to qualify its lathes as "engine" or "tool room" designation. How heavy the lathe was built would determine how heavy a cut it could take and not chatter and maintain accuracy.

The best I ever ran was an Axelson - built like a tank for its size.

John Risley wrote:
That old Lucas mill is another diamond {in the rough}. Would of been a nice machine to have operational. On the other hand there are modern machines {Hbars} that you can pick up cheap that would be faster and easier in the long run to use effectively. Tooling is another complications with some of the really old machines. Great pictures of some nice vintage machine tools. Thanks for sharing your pics. John.
I worked in a shop with Devlieg HBM's and those machinists loved them. Wouldn't want any other brand.

Warms my heart that you like the photos. I enjoyed the IRM shop more than any other part of the museum.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Location: Rochelle Illinois
Jdelhaye wrote:
There is another Lucas, in the shop, and it was operational, the last time I checked.

Jeff
Yes, I took photos of it and will post them in a while. I have a dog that is waiting for his walk.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois Railway Museum Machine Shop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 522
Location: Illinois
machinehead61 wrote:
Jdelhaye wrote:
That's a high speed threading lathe, it will "catch the thread" every time, automatically. It has 2 coaxial screws on the cross feed ( 1 normal, 1 "rapid traverse" ) and when you have the rapid traverse screw unlocked, you can back the tool out about an inch with a single turn of the crank. You leave the split nut engaged at all times while threading, and reverse the feed screw to traverse back to the beginning of the cut. Adjust the compound feed in a few thousandths while you are on the way back, run the cross feed back in to the stop, throw the feed lever back to forward, (slight pause while the lathe synchronizes itself) and you are in the next pass quicker and easier than reading this paragraph.

Jeff
I'm not seeing 2 coaxial screws on this lathe. I see 4 rods - going from top to bottom: (1) Appears to be a longitudinal feed shut-off rod with two adjustable lock rings on either side of the saddle and a micrometer adjustable stop on the front of the saddle. (2) Appears to be the single threading lead screw. (3) Appears to be the power feed rod. (4) Appears to be the spindle start/stop rod. My Monarch has the exact same set up.

Steve

.....excuse the all caps, but ON THE CROSS FEED! (NOT the longitudinal). Not visible due to the angle of your photo, but if you were to look just inboard of the cross feed handle (behind it, in your photo), you would see TWO locking screws for the cross feed (the crews themselves are hidden inside the carriage) To change from normal cross feed to rapid, you lock one, and unlock the other. I believe the normal feed lock is closest to the handle, and the rapid is closest to the carriage.
Jeff

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